Sexual Health and Queer+ History

[00:00:00] Calan Breckon: Today’s episode is sponsored by Kit, Formerly known as ConvertKit, the email marketing platform for creators. I’ve been using Kit for years because I found that it is the most efficient and easy to use out of all the email service providers. Kit simplifies your email marketing by combining powerful automations with an easy to use interface. I love the Visual Automations builder because I am a very visual person and it really helps me to organize all of my automations in a very simple, simple and easy way. And let’s face it, automations is a must have in order to succeed in any business. Today, Kit also integrates with all of your favorite e commerce platforms, lead generation services and much more. The best part about Kit is that it runs on a sliding scale for payment so that you can get started for free while you learn all about Kit systems and how to grow your email list. So to get started today for free, head over to calanbreckon.com/kit or just click the link in the show notes. Now let’s get on to today’s episode.

Welcome to the Business Gay podcast where we talk about all things business, marketing and entrepreneurship. I’m your host Calan Breckon and on today’s episode I have co-founder and COO of Trusti, Ella Farlinger. Trusti is a company that provides discreet, efficient and convenient at home rapid STI testing kits in Canada, offering users a way to test the comfort of their own homes with subtle packaging and a secure results portal. Ella has always been driven by a passion for communication and human connection. Growing up at the intersection of academia and the arts, she honed her ability to tell compelling stories, whether on stage, through research or in writing. She believes that innovation and education have the power to create healthier, happier lives. Yes, even in the topics that still make people blush.

Today we’re going to be talking about sexual health and the history of how The queer+ community has helped shape this industry. So, let’s jump in with Ella.

Hey Ella, welcome to the show, I’m so excited to have you. How are you doing?

[00:02:04] Ella Farlinger: I’m great. Thank you for having me. So excited to be here.

[00:02:06] Calan Breckon: Yeah, I know. Well, I’m really excited to jump into this because I’m, I’m like, I’m not a historian, but I’m definitely a queer history appreciator and I love our queer history and a lot of what we’re going to be talking about definitely connects the dots between those worlds.

So first I want to just talk a little bit about like the Queer+ community. And how it’s helped shape the healthcare space when it comes to like sexual health and STIs.

[00:02:32] Ella Farlinger: Yeah, I love this question. So, you know, for me. So my formative background in being interested in this space is I have an uncle who, who died of AIDS before I was alive, so I never got to meet him. But my father was his caretaker right till the end. And you know, my father’s an artist and he’s made works based on that experience. And so it sort of was this really important story piece in my family life. And it was through learning about that from a very young age. And I think too, what’s interesting for, for other gen zers is they actually don’t really have that connection to that period and the HIV epidemic. And, and there’s a bit of like, the lineage is a little lapsed in that storytelling. And so I always found that I was one of the few people my age who knew what HIV was, knew the difference between HIV and aids.

And so having learned so much about that as a child and as a teenager, what I always was struck by was the self administered and communal aspects of care that that community, particularly in the 80s, had to, you know, muster up in the face of systems sort of neglecting them, shunning them.

And you know, you hear the stories of, I think it’s like the blood sisters in, in San Francisco or San Diego who were a group of lesbian women donating blood because they couldn’t get well, folks who were having issues with anemia when they developed AIDS and needed blood transfusions. And then you obviously hear the stories of like care teams being created for someone in those later stages who needed that support, who understood what the virus was, how it was and wasn’t transmitted, and didn’t have those pieces of stigma attached to their care in those later stages. So to me, that sense of like self administration and community are these core tenants to, I think, how the queer community has shaped the healthcare space. It kind of reminds me too of the disabled community who in a lot of ways has had to create their own tools and resources when faced with barriers to access. And I remember hearing that a lot of that during COVID when everything went online and you had disabled creators being like, oh, we’ve been doing like zoom meetings forever, you know, and we’ve been doing, you know, virtual events for a long time. And, and so I think in those moments you always get a sense of how certain marginalized groups have organized in a way to support each other and get the care that they needed. When the system wouldn’t provide that.

So that piece, to me is really what speaks the legacy of the LGBTQ community in shaping the healthcare space. And then there’s also the really interesting pieces of research advocacy, and we can talk at end about that from the HIV epidemic period. And my uncle was actually one of those folks who was really insistent on there being a removal of control for trials and that everyone could get an experimental drug and just throwing any possible aid to anyone who was. Who. Who was HIV positive and you. And like, it’s pretty wild. And the. Hi. At the AIDS memorial in the village in Toronto here, his name is on one of those plaques. And it’s like, right near the end, like, he was so close to getting.

[00:05:50] Calan Breckon: Right at the 519.

[00:05:52] Ella Farlinger: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you can see, like, because the names are, like, it’s like 20 plaques in those first years, and then it gets smaller and smaller as those therapies were finally found and distributed. And so he was one of those folks who, on the research side, was really advocating for access in a way that’s not this kind of, like, rigid, scientific. You know, we need to know this. And of course, you know, you need that to an extent. You need that for Advil, maybe, but, like, when people are dying, like, we. We need to be giving the treatments that are available. So I think those two areas are stuff that I always go back on. And when looking at the legacy and how healthcare was. Was shaped, is. Is questioning that research process, when is it absolutely vital? When is it best to sort of give some leniency? And also that. That community aspect.

[00:06:36] Calan Breckon: Yeah, definitely. And I think that because we as a community went through that, we were the pushers of, well, you know, get tested. And I, growing up and coming out, I knew, like, you just. You got tested all the time. Back in my younger years, it was like, every six months regularly, because everybody’s using condoms and, like, very well educated, sexually speaking, because we had to be. And I think through that, we forced the healthcare system to learn and grow with us on a faster pace than they would have. And even now, in today’s age, now there’s, like, places here in Toronto, like hq, where you just walk in, you do your own swabs, you do your own stuff, and then a nurse will take your blood, and it’s just like, quick in and out. Whereas before, you used to have to set it up with your doctor, it was very arduous, it was very regimented. And it’s like the more access and free, easy access you give to people, they’re pretty competent. Like people can do their own swabs and stuff like that. I remember when I was in London, there was a place before any of that kind of happened here, years ago in London. I would go to this walk in place and you’d walk in, you’d get your swabs and everything and you’d go into the washroom and they gave you this like tube thing. And once it was all done, you’d put it in the tube and it would just whoop and it would go off and like within 24 hours you’d have results. And it just, it makes so much sense in my head. And I know that the only reason those places and that kind of experience exists is because the queer community is like, no, we do this so often. We need to make it more efficient and get better at it and it needs to be a part of our systems and it just, it makes so much sense. So I’m curious, how have these kind of historical contributions and movements by the queer community really shaped the way that you approach your sexual health education today?

[00:08:23] Ella Farlinger: Yeah, I mean, I’m so glad you touched on the proactivity of this community when it comes to testing. And I always find it interesting how people don’t necessarily realize that there are. It’s almost twice as many HIV tests are done in Ontario every year compared to chlamydia and gonorrhea. And that even though chlamydia and gonorrhea are more prevalent, to me that’s like, hello, that speaks to the practice of reactivity versus proactivity. And it also, when you look at the positivity rates of those two things, that will also tell you what does that model actually lend in terms of health. And so I desperately want people to have that same approach with chlamydia and gonorrhea. You know, mostly like the straight community because they, they, they sort of go, oh, something’s burning. And then they, they will go get tested. When we also know that 70% of the time you don’t actually have symptoms for Clyde gonorrhea. So, so having that as these signals is never, never really the right sign. And so I think that proactivity piece is, is so crucial. And I mean, it’s also symptomatic of the system that we live in at large that focuses on treatment rather than prevention. And I think in the case of the queer+ community, when we were faced with that period where treatment actually wasn’t necessarily a viable option. Now of course that’s very different with art being so available. But it was like prevention is all we can do. And so going back to how to disseminate that information again, like that community piece is so important to me. And so what we’re trying to do at Trusti is, is be in community as much as possible and be disseminating information in a way that actually is accessible, approachable. You know, right now if you try and get any public health information on any of the major STIs, you sort of get this like chunk of a PDF that’s like a five year survey overlooking the positivity rates in a province. And, and of course like those reports are very important for directing public health initiatives, but they’re not very convenient for just the lay person trying to get that information and understand it. And so I think those three tiers of really, really trying to drive proactivity as a, as a new practice. And people, people want that, you know, people want it to feel like a routine, something that they don’t need to think like desperately about or have to organize those appointments. And exactly as you’re saying, like as a result we’ve had clinics that have built in convenience as much as they can. And so what we’re trying to do at is build in sort of that extra layer of like so what does that at home piece look like when you can get full virtual care and assistance with the actual self test process? And so you know, it’s not to be a replacement necessarily for those clinic systems, but it can be kind of that like preliminary screening tool for folks so that they don’t have to deal with waiting in line or maybe you know, like I have a, I have a friend who, who jokes about how he like will run into a grinder date at HQ or at Hassle Free or at those major clinics and it’s like obviously they’re awesome but like the in person element is, is always be a barrier in some ways, you know, so, so we’re just trying to build in that home process to continue building on this call for convenience from that community.

[00:11:30] Calan Breckon: Yeah, so I know that historically because the world is mostly heteronormative, there’s always been difficulties and even going back to the AIDS epidemic that you know, people didn’t want to invest money to helping, you know, because they were like even today DEI is the bad word. And so what, what are investors missing when it comes to building products that intend to serve the queer+ community because of those hang ups and those kind of historical things that we have?

[00:12:00] Ella Farlinger: Absolutely. I think there’s a bunch of different misconceptions that, that contribute to this here.

And like, I hate to have to like, dilute the community into numbers of like, consumer behavior, but at the end of the day, that’s what investors care about. And so, you know, when we get to those numbers, we actually, there’s a lot to be attracted to. You know, so this is a very consumer savvy group of folks. They’re online, they’re clued into culture, they enjoy, you know, products that make their life better. These are, these are people who are actively sort of in pursuit of that. And also this idea that they have this lesser market share, that it’s a niche market, is becoming increasingly incorrect. You know, you see there was a Gallup study that showed that just under 10% of millennials identify as LGBTQ. That’s up now to like 22% for.

[00:12:50] Calan Breckon: Gen Z in Gen Z. Yeah.

[00:12:52] Ella Farlinger: And like, just to be clear too, that’s not because having drag queens at brunch is like converting kids. It’s because inevitably representation allows people to go like, oh, huh, wait, like maybe there is part of that in me. And that’s like a beautiful thing. That’s not a scary and horrible thing. And so, so that share is incre. Like that’s, that’s almost a quarter of our population. So now the, the misconception that it’s niche is just like, foolish. It’s just, it, it disserves these investors. So, so having that mindset shift is, is huge. And then they also, like everyone always talks about too, the, the disposable income of the LGBTQ + community. And this is sort of based off of a generalization that, or, you know, I guess it’s somewhat research backed, but that there’s. They have less children. There’s. Or less of them have children. And, and so there’s more disposal income sort of throughout the life stages, which also makes them more of an appealing consumer group. And that, that even just in the numbers where we see 4.5 right now, 4.5% of the US population identifying as LGBTQ plus, but that 8% of them have that, that they are 8% of that disposable income population. So it’s like large, like it’s disproportionate and, and the numbers speak for themselves. So investors are not prepared to accept that. Then that’s actually just bigotry. That’s not, you know, sense.

[00:14:13] Calan Breckon: Amen. I’ve been screaming that from the rooftops for years.

[00:14:18] Ella Farlinger: Yeah, and I love when numbers now just Got to get us to be like, okay, so, so now what do you. What now what now?

[00:14:24] Calan Breckon: My favorite, my favorite 100% is like, so here’s the facts and the numbers. So where does your homophobia lay on this line?

[00:14:33] Ella Farlinger: When can we just name it?

[00:14:35] Calan Breckon: Yeah, when can I just call you a homophobic, bigoted douchebag? Yeah, 100%.

[00:14:41] Ella Farlinger: And, and I think like some of the work that like Misfits Ventures, which is started by.

[00:14:47] Calan Breckon: I know them well.

[00:14:48] Ella Farlinger: Yes. And so that those folks are doing a lot of it is going into that investor base and being like, hi, do you not see the opportunity here? And then like, I don’t know the exact numbers, but I remember when you spoke to your guests from StartOut, you guys talked a lot about, so the ROI being so much better for queer entrepreneurs and female entrepreneurs too. And you know, we’re not, that’s not surprising and I’m sure we’ll get into that. But, but these are, this is a group who’s like, had to learn resilience and empathy, which we, we know are absolute foundations for being a successful entrepreneur. So, so it doesn’t surprise us. And of course when you’re facing barriers, that’s sort of natural selection for those who are ready to, to push through. And so again, like the investment opportunity is there. We just need to be ready to, to break down some of our, some of our bigotry and you know, like, we’re working on it. We’re working on it. I have some, some like old white straight men who now understand like what HIV Is, who say STIs instead of STDs even though now it’s technically STBVIs. But that’s, there’s no way there’s. We’re gonna take our wins where we can, you know, so, so like piece by piece that re. Education is coming.

[00:16:01] Calan Breckon: Yeah, that’s, that’s like good. We need that. And I hope, I mean the world is if nothing but an ever changing space. And like that’s the only inevitable really. That and death.

With your, with your growing technology and increased focus on accessibility, what does the next phase of sexual health education and innovation look like from your standpoint at Trusti?

[00:16:23] Ella Farlinger: Yeah, you know, as of right now and you know, I think for most of us growing up, sexual health education was kind of relegated to like your gymnasium. And it was like that dreadful day where you walk in and you see like a chalkboard instead of like basketballs and you’re like, oh God. And then, you know, you’re like middle aged gym Teachers pulling out a banana with a condom, and it’s just like, it’s misery. Even. Like, I. I had a really progressive female lesbian gym teacher growing up in elementary school, and she would do these amazing sessions where you could sort of input anonymous questions. And we went into this, like, other room, and we could all just sort of feel comfortable and safe having those conversations. And even still, I remember kids kind of like, laughing and snickering about certain questions because it’s just so difficult for young people to. To hear these things that feel so taboo and sort of try and be all together with girls and boys and everyone. And it’s just like, I really, truly believe that this needs to be brought or, you know, partially or at least in a better form needs to be brought online. And that’s because that’s where the kiddos are. That’s where they are all getting their information. But importantly, that’s also where folks who are not in school are. And I think it’s like, I talk to so many people who are out of high school, out of university, in their middle age and their late age, and they’re like, wait, I, like, I don’t actually learn anything more about. About sexual health because I’m not, like, being taught it all the time. And so for us, having those digital tools is super, super important. Yes. For, like, the young folks who. Who want to be able to access it, maybe they can do it under their covers and then quickly exit away when their parent comes in. Because, you know, we can get into obviously, like, the division around sex ed curricula in Kriki Lai in. In Ontario, which has been political fodder for decades now. And, you know, some of it is, like, truly bigotry, where they just think, again, like, they’re teaching their kid how to be gay. And some of it is, like, nuanced cultural conversations of, like, new Canadians who come from cultures where, like, sex is not something that is spoken about publicly. And so we need to be prepared for having those virtual options because in person is not always the safest for some kids, you know, and. And I think there’s, like, some really cool initiatives that also are bringing in fashion, art, entertainment into these conversations so that they don’t feel sterile and intimidating. There’s a group called Sex Sex Education by Theater, which is led by a woman named Shira Taylor. And I was just talking with her the other day about the work that they’re doing, and it’s amazing. And they put together these sketches in this show all about sti. There’s like characters called like sneaky syphilis and karate chlamydia and they go into northern communities and talk about safer l relationships. And some of her stories are, are like devastating and some of them are obviously just like so beautiful and hopeful. And, and so I think blending those intimidating conversations into accessible media is amazing. And, and I mean like, yeah, speaking of like the fashion world, the art world, I think too of like my, my co founder was, was at a consignment store the other day and saw the Jean Paul Gaultier like famous mesh top that says Safe sex Forever that he did in his 1995 Six Camp collection after his partner had passed away from AIDS in 1990. And, and I think it’s, it’s just we, we need these conversations to obviously we need the charts, we need the data, we need, we need stuff that feels a little bit more sterile, but we also like really need something that lets people feel through these complicated topics.

[00:19:56] Calan Breckon: Yeah, you brought up so many good topics. I think education is such a key component and I think the reason that the queer community is so good at getting tested and so ahead of the game on so many reasons is because we de stigmatize the sexual part of it. And it’s just proof in the pudding that if you can just get over all the rules and things you were told growing up or religious things and other things that get played into it, it’s just like people are people, we’re messy, human beings are messy. But if you have the education around it, the more you know, the better well off you’re going to be. And it’s not about teaching, you know, whether it’s, you know, gay sex, lesbian, straight sex. It’s, it’s all encompassing. It’s just being a good human being and being an educated human being and to destigmatize that you need to be able to be exposed to it. And you know, I get it some people, it makes so many people uncomfortable. But just because it makes you uncomfortable doesn’t mean it should, shouldn’t happen because you’re just passing that uncomfort on to your kids and making them feel bad about something they shouldn’t feel bad about. And that is so detrimental. And we see it in so many cultures. When I was growing up there was this show on TV called Sex with sue and it was like a late night TV show and everybody remembers her and loved her and it’s because she was this old lady who just like gave zero fucks and just would answer questions and like something like that that is on online that you know, people can have access to is definitely like a must have. We got time for like one last question here. So how can the queer+ community continue to drive change in the healthcare tech space?

[00:21:33] Ella Farlinger: So I feel like right now we’re at this like really, really, really crucial point where we’ve been vouching so much for representation and inclusion and comfort and that is all obviously like, like huge first step. And that I would say, you know, has been like maybe the past like 40 years in the making and now we’re finally seeing society sort of recognize that oh like we actually do want to sort of, we want to see queer+ content, we want to see these characters, these people on screen. We want to, we want to hear their stories. And now I find especially you know, I come from an arts background and I always struggle with whether it’s like female creators, indigenous creators, queer creators.

I always want to watch how certain like bureaucracies, agencies, VCs will, will thrust someone into the limelight like before they are ready. And that piece is not, it’s not about providing opportunity, it’s about providing like incubation, you know, because these, we like, these are communities who are, are sometimes like half a century behind in these spaces. You know. So like this idea that you can suddenly just like throw this massive investment to a young entrepreneur and be like, you can do this now go ahead. Just because they tick a box and you get some extra grant money from, from the government for it. That really, really frustrates me because now we’re going to get products out there, creations out there that, that are like undercooked, you know. And so I am like so pro incubation. And that’s why like Misfits is an amazing group shout start out again, you know, these, these spaces that are, it’s, it’s of course like yes, throw all the capital at these people. Like I am like want them to be invested in and pushed forth. But I think we’re, we’re missing a piece of like actually incubating training, fostering the growth of, of these groups before we sort of like shove them out into the world. And that’s because like development is expensive and it’s slow. But you know, that’s the reality. And it’s not just about hitting some quota or percentage of how many marginalized groups you supported that year like that, that, that product like front facing version of it really, really like disturbs me. And it’s not actually serving the creators and the leaders in those spaces. And so, so it’s all about development to me. And I feel like I talk about this on every show that I’m on but it’s, but it’s true and, and it actually will serve those leaders and.

[00:24:07] Calan Breckon: Like mentorship, that incubation period and mentorship and seeing the long road and knowing that, you know, anything good worthwhile building takes time. The pyramids did not just show up overnight like that. It takes time to build things that are going to last. And in this hyper capitalistic society that we are currently experiencing right now, that’s not necessarily the thought process. The thought process is how can I make my buck really quick. But when investors take the time to really spend the time investing and mentoring and incubating these ideas and these things, it definitely is a way to push forward. And like you touched upon earlier, women led startups, queer led startups. We are scrappier because, because we’ve learned that we need to be scrappier because we do not usually get those, those, those kind of like helping hands to move us along. So things are shifting but then also things are shifting backwards in other places. Very weird, very weird place.

So where, if people want to find out more or connect or try testy or Trusti for themselves, where can they go to find out more information?

[00:25:15] Ella Farlinger: We were actually going to call ourselves testy and like, like in OG iterations but then we’re like maybe that’s a little too like anatomically exclusive where people find us. So we are launching at the end of April just in Ontario. We’re just, we’re just providing HIV self testing kits and that has fully integrated virtual care. These are trauma informed nurses. These are, this is an amazing group of, of of a care team who’s really like built this out with us and so we’re super excited to be out there. We’re, we’re also going to be around Toronto for all of pride, hopefully a bit in Ottawa as well but trying to keep as local and sort of active as we can in, in our communities especially, you know we’re in a very pro Canada time so we’re, we’re happy to, to, to be in that zone. You can find us at Trusti ca that’s T R U S T I dot C A or at Trusti tests on all the, all the socials. We post memes about chlamydia and stuff. It’s a good time.

Yeah. And we’re just getting started in the summer. We’re hoping to launch some of those digital education tools that I’ve sort of alluded to that’ll be like a dashboard that makes public health data actually digestible. A forum that kind of emulates the catharsis that you see on platforms like Reddit, where so many sexual health conversations end up happening right now, but with a bit more of that medical through line, some nurse moderation to give it a bit more legitimacy. And so just trying to think a bit more, you know, with a bit more innovation about what those online education spaces can look like. And so that’s all coming in the summer and it are involving and integrating more tests as they become approved because we just do rapid testing.

Yeah, it’s just we’re starting out. We’d love to get some people on board, get their feedback and grow our community. It’s a, it’s an exciting time. I’m not sleeping, but that’s okay.

[00:27:03] Calan Breckon: Awesome, awesome. And I’ll also include a link to your LinkedIn in the show notes, all that stuff. There’ll be your LinkedIn and Connect website and all that kind of stuff. Thank you so much for being a guest, Ella. This has been fantastic. I love talking about queer history and these things that we need to continue talking about so that they don’t disappear or move backwards. So thank you for sharing your time with us today.

[00:27:26] Ella Farlinger: Absolutely. Such a pleasure. Thanks so much.

[00:27:28] Calan Breckon: Thanks for tuning in today. Don’t forget to hit that subscribe button. And if you really enjoyed today’s episode, I would love a star rating from you. The Business Gay podcast is written, produced and edited by me, Calan Breckon. That’s it for today. Peace, love, rainbows.