HR Advice For Small Businesses

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Welcome to the Business Gay podcast where we talk about all things business, marketing and entrepreneurship. I’m your host, Calan Breckon, and on today’s episode, I have HR consultant and Dei specialist, Clea Arrieta. Clea is a big sister, first generation canadian, and queer woman of color. She’s had the deep privilege of working with incredible teams within tech, nonprofit, and civic organization spaces that are focused on creating employee experiences that matter. By day, she is an HR consultant at Brighton early who works to partner with small to mid sized organizations to create thoughtful and intentional employee experiences. And by night, she sits on the board of QueerTech and Mabuhay House Society. Today we’re gonna be answering questions like, “does my business really need HR yet?” And where you can start with your business, no matter what the size. So let’s jump in with Clea.

Welcome to the podcast, Clea. I’m so excited to have you. How are you doing?

[00:01:44] Clea Arrieta: I am doing great. I’m so excited to be here.

[00:01:47] Calan Breckon: Yeah, we are jumping right in. I wanna kick things off with some myths around HR. Those being that it’s no fun, it gives you less ability to be agile, and it’s only for big organizations. So let’s start off with the it’s no fun part.

[00:02:05] Clea Arrieta: Everybody knows that HR, the history of it is that we were designed to figure out how to have humans be resources for capitalism and making sure that we’re able to deliver on all of our business needs. And those myths, while coming from a point of truth at some point, are definitely not accurate to this day. And it’s definitely important for organizations to have HR, that it’s absolutely necessary for organizations to invest in this at the beginning. And I like to think it helps to unlock, like, opportunities for innovation or camaraderie or collaboration and all of those things. I know a lot of folks are scared of processes and policies.

They think that they inhibit culture. And so that’s definitely not the case. But we hear about those HR myths all the time.

[00:02:57] Calan Breckon: Definitely. And especially startups. Like, there’s this belief that there’s less ability to be agile as a startup. And I feel it goes hand in hand with the belief that HR is really only for bigger organizations. They don’t start off big. And so they’re like, oh, we’ll do that later, we’ll do that later. Can you talk to me a little bit more about that belief and why that might be incorrect?

[00:03:20] Clea Arrieta: Absolutely. So HR, like, what I always want to ground organizations that I work with or businesses that I work with is that HR is going to look different depending on the size, the scale, the moment in time for your business. And so old school, like HR was like, we’re just going to slap on these processes and policies to any organization and good luck to those employees or those bosses. Versus I will say, like, the more modern approach is really starting to customize the experience and really listen to who your team is going to be or currently is, and creating HR opportunities that help those individuals along at that stage of the organization. And so it’s definitely not something where you’re operating in a black box. It’s meant to be something that’s more collaborative. It’s meant to be something that your team can share their thoughts and feedback around. And so it’s definitely something that is not just for big organizations. Smaller organizations are really important to grounded that, especially at the beginning, because if you just scale and continue to grow without building those initial foundations, you’ll find yourself in some trouble down the line if you don’t get it right from the beginning, or at least try your best to be building those foundations. And so that’s something that I like to keep in mind with some of my clients.

[00:04:37] Calan Breckon: Yeah, definitely. So tell me a little bit more about what you do and the organizations you work with.

[00:04:43] Clea Arrieta: Yes. Okay, so I like to think of myself as a multi hyphenated person. My day job, I like to think of myself as Batman. My day job is working as an HR consultant at Brighton early. We are an agency that helps to support small to mid sized organizations with building employee experiences that matter and that view humans as humans and less like resources. So we often work with tech organizations, nonprofits, organizations that are really trying to focus on progressive HR policies and experiences. And then in my outside, my day job, I will say I get to work with two organizations that I feel quite passionate about from a board perspective. And so I’m on the board of Queer Tech, which is how we met, which is beautiful. All about focusing on diversifying the tech ecosystem with more queers and folks like myself and yourself, et cetera. And then I also work within the filipino community in BC, particularly the lower mainland in Vancouver.

I do a lot with an organization called Mabuay House Society that’s focused on creating a filipino cultural center. And so I like to think of my experiences functioning at a very high level with the Googles, Deloittes, the tech organizations, but also very community oriented and trying to bring HR and employee experiences, regardless of the size of the business or organization, in a way that makes sense for them. And so I do have quite a scale in experiences for who I’m working with, but that’s what I would say my day to day looks like.

[00:06:17] Calan Breckon: Nice. I want to dive a little bit more into kind of smaller businesses because the folks who listen to this are more like entrepreneurial, dealing with kind of smaller things. So is there really a point to having an HR team or an HR member on your team when it’s really just two to ten? Is it really something that you need to build in cost wise while you’re building your company and why?

[00:06:39] Clea Arrieta: Yeah, so the thing that we like to always talk about at Brighton early is that your team and the people that you work with is your most important customer. And that might be some hot take because we work with a lot of clients that are B, two B SaaS organizations, etcetera. And they’re all about creating a tool for our communities, etcetera. But you as the founder and your initial first few hires, you can do nothing without that team. And so that team is as important to you as your customer, especially at that smaller scale of under ten employees. And so I like to think that that’s the most important time for you to be focusing on your values, your culture, and really honing in as to what that looks like in practice. We hear a lot of organizations that have these values like collaboration and inclusion, all of these really great words that a lot of founders like to include. But what does that actually look like in practice, and how does that shift how we work, how we work together, how we create things and really getting clear on that initial mission vision mandate from the get go. And so it’s definitely important, I would say, as a line item. And it doesn’t have to be like an in house HR person, I think, especially in that two to ten person size, like every individual that’s on the team, should be responsible for creating the culture that you’re building towards and should be bought into. Why? That’s important right from the beginning. And so it’s definitely important for that under ten employee size, for sure.

[00:08:09] Calan Breckon: So what should these businesses or founders be considering when they are on that smaller scale? They want to start implementing kind of this HR energy or some guiding hand in when they’re a smaller business. How can they look at working with an HR person or building that into their team when they’re first starting out? Should they outsource it and to what point should they outsource it until.

[00:08:37] Clea Arrieta: Yeah, I think there are a lot, so I will pitch up bright and early. We do have a magazine that we publish so many guides on because you definitely don’t need an in house HR or to invest in a specific HR, a consultant right from the beginning. There are a lot of free resources, newsletters, etcetera. And I think a big thing is being able to look at your network and see if there are other folks around you that have done something similar to you and built those initial values and culture pieces that make the organization the way that it is. And I think from there, the key things that you should be considering is avoiding diversity debt. That is something that we talk about with a lot of our founders. It often comes from an idea of we care about diversity, but the people that I have working with me are quite homogenous or similar to me, which isn’t inherently wrong. Those are the people that you’re going to be working with. But how can you keep that in the back of your mind? That who are the people that will add to what I’m building towards? That maybe bring a different perspective to me right in that two to ten employee size. And so that’s something to prioritize at the beginning. Another thing is your recruiting machine you are going to ideally be scaling, but before that, you want to have a clear understanding of what would you be able to provide an employee, should you start to take on interns, volunteers out your organization? So what are you able to offer them? So it’s not an extractive process. If you have folks coming in right at the beginning and making sure you’re clear as to, like, what are you recruiting for, which attaches to your values and culture and ensuring that that’s in place proactively. So you aren’t just going off of vibes, unfortunately, which is what we see with a lot of founders or first time founders, which, again, is not a dig at them, but there are ways to make sure that it’s clear from a compliance perspective to support equity so it isn’t just based off of vibes and more based on tangible things that you’re hoping to add to your organization. And the last thing that I’ll mention that you. You want to keep in mind is a handbook, which you’re like clay. There’s only three employees. I don’t think we need a handbook. It could just be a playbook, or it could just be documentation of some sort, because at this point, things are moving so quickly. You are often working with yourself or maybe one other person just to have some. Some version of documentation as to what tools are we using. When do we work? How do we work? Is there anything that we would want to keep in mind if we were to add the next person? Just documenting as you go, which will eventually morph into a playbook, and then that’ll eventually morph into a handbook as you continue to grow as an organization. And then from there, you could expand as much as you want with a consultant. Like, you can definitely be working with an agency that supports from a recruiting perspective. If you want to scale in that direction, you could work with an agency to focus in on your strategic plan and your year over year governance. And those are all options that we’ve worked with, with our clients in the past. And so those are some of the things I would say that I would keep in mind right at that. That scale and how to start at the beginning. Does that make sense?

[00:11:52] Calan Breckon: Definitely, yeah. Early stage entrepreneurs. It’s kind of one of those things. We don’t know what we don’t know. And so it makes it very difficult to be like, oh, we need to do all these things. Well, if you’ve never done them before, then you don’t know what. You don’t know what. Have you ever seen, like, what happens to a company if it scales without taking this HR consideration into mind? Like, do you have any examples of what could go wrong?

[00:12:17] Clea Arrieta: Yeah. Okay, this. This is good. I will. I wouldn’t say I have. I have a case study in my head. This is exciting, but I wouldn’t say it was necessarily something that went wrong, but, like, a lack of initial foundation building impacted the opera, like, operandization of it, like, being it and being able to transition it into something that can continue to grow. For example, one of my clients that I’ve worked with really wanted to have a bit of a holocracy, a lateral organization, not too many layers with the hierarchy of who’s their manager and the leaders, which was really great in theory obsessed. I love it. Have a co op union, all of those things. I love that in theory. But in practice, knowing that they were going to be working with grant funding has specific funders that they had deadlines around. They still needed to find a way to operate as a business. And because those initial discussions around how we communicate, how we share feedback, how we hit deadlines, weren’t initially discovered, we did end up getting ourselves into some sticky situations where we were starting to miss deadlines. We were starting to miss the things that our funders were requiring from us, which created a ripple effect of, like, how sustainable are we as an organization, which added a lot of tension and stress for a lot of the founding leaders. And so it’s not to say you can’t write the ship as it’s not capsizing, but it’s kind of tilting, but it would just take additional labor that sometimes when you’re in that sticking point, it’s harder to prioritize that when you’re already in it, versus if you invest the time at the beginning creating those practices, policies, processes, then you have something that you can point at. And those policies, I will say, will also be ever evolving and can continue to change. But that initial documentation is so important for how we work and to have a shared understanding of the language that we use, so then we can go back when things get tense. And so I think of this client of mine, like, we eventually got to a place that we were able to establish. What does it look like to function with hierarchy and feedback while still being able to create, like, a holistic experience for the employees, where even if they were just an individual contributor, they could have opinions on things. And so we got to that place eventually, but it definitely took a lot more conversations and labor while we were navigating that tense moment for them.

[00:14:43] Calan Breckon: Definitely, yeah. As it’s interesting, as entrepreneurs, I’ll speak from my experience, a lot of entrepreneurs tend to be entrepreneurs because we didn’t necessarily enjoy the corporate vibes or like, the corporatization of the environments we had been in, or maybe we’d never actually been in specific corporate experiences. And so, coming into building a big company that’s going to scale and grow, all of a sudden, you need all these things that you didn’t like. But if you don’t start implementing some of these things, things can get very, very messy.

And so it’s important to recognize, like, okay, we need to at least have some sort of guidance or at least some sort of a. Something that can grow and evolve with us as we grow. Like you said, even three people could have some sort of an outline that then evolves when another person comes on or a few more people come into the picture so that at least people know there’s kind of a map to follow. People like to know where they’re going. And providing that map of, like, how those things are done can really help and be beneficial. Um, what would your first steps be if you were working with, like, brand new founders and, you know, maybe there’s just three or four of them, what would you suggest they do now at that really early stage? Like, what’s one or two key points of, like, do this and do this, and it’ll really help set you up for the future?

[00:16:09] Clea Arrieta: Yeah. Just thinking back on what you said about being anti corporate, and that’s what often gets folks to head into the entrepreneurial path, and that resonates and is the story of one of our founders at Brighton early. And so that makes sense. And I think figuring out how to have policies and processes that also reflect an organization’s values are so important. So it doesn’t have to just be the standard corporate jargon that nobody understands and gets shelved away. And so I think about the first steps of working with a founder or a team of three or four. The basic, basic thing you want to get clear on is, like, what are we creating towards? In the same way that you look at your organization and are thinking about what is the product that we’re creating or what is the tool that’s going to unlock things. XYZ, you also want to reflect into, like, what is the employee experience that we want to create on our team? What does it even mean to be on a team? And it doesn’t always have to mean that you’re heading towards a point of scaling the business. Growing is not always the goal. There are so many other ways to grow, and so how can you enhance the current employee experience? So making sure you’re really clear on the mission, really clear on the vision and the company values are absolutely things that you need to start from the get go. You also want to think from a compliance perspective, which I know is so boring, but you also want to consider that because of the health and safety of your organization. And that’s just not, it’s not just physical safety, but also psychological safety, which I think drives innovation. Like, when you want to surround yourself as a founder with people that disagree with you, that push you that have ideas for the future of the organization, what are you doing as a team right at the beginning? To create space for that and to build trust over time. And so that being another item that I would say is really important at the beginning. And then the thing around hiring, as I mentioned previously, is that you want to think about hiring not just for future state, but it’s also your marketing. And so thinking about hiring as marketing for you as an organization, it all works together. Like, who is your target market that you want to be creating? The tool, the process, the thing for. And like, how can you make sure that you are encouraging folks from those places to participate within your organization, whether it be as a consultant, advisor, etcetera, even if it isn’t as like a full time permanent hire? And what is the value proposition? It’s. I think it’s pretty similar to design thinking. When you’re trying to consider all the different Personas that you’re designing for, all of the people that you’re trying to sell to. It’s the same for your employees. Like, are they a mom? Are they someone that’s a recent grad? Are they someone that’s later on in their experience and trying to have those conversations around what employee experience could look like for each of them from the beginning?

[00:19:02] Calan Breckon: Definitely. I know one of the important things for me, I love Brene Brown, and I love a lot of the, her leadership skills and her leadership teachings.

And so she has a dare to lead program, I believe. And that’s one of the things in the back of my mind of, like, once things get a little bit bigger, once we have that, a little bit more of that team built out of doing something like that together as a leadership team to make sure that we are planting those seeds early on before things go, you know, hopefully hyperbolic, so that we can build in those structures of like, well, how do we rumble together? Like, how do we have, you know, discourse? How do we experience these things on our team? And how can we make that a safe space for us so that by the time we get to a big place, those aren’t issues for us? Because I can only imagine if you get to a big place and you’ve not implemented that, going backwards is a lot more difficult to retrain people. Speaking of, of moving forward into a bigger organization, looking at it from a stability and kind of growth, um, spectrum, what are kind of the middle ground stages? What do they need to be thinking about or, or aware of when it comes to HR, when you’re in a little bit more of a, you’ve had some growth stage.

[00:20:17] Clea Arrieta: I think onboarding is something that folks don’t always think about. Um, because they’re like, oh, it’s fine. Like we’re just going to hire them and they’re going to figure it out. They’re going to shadow us. It’ll be okay. And I love you shaking your head because that is never going to work for you, to be quite honest.

Even if it’s the most basic process, it’s important to have that in place, especially before you are starting to scale. Even if it means hiring additional humans, regardless of level, etcetera. Even if it’s just like, what can you count on me as the founder for? Like, what am I, your go to person for? Or what can you count on your manager for? This is what they will be able to unlock for you. So I thinking about like a 30, 60, 90 day plan is a great structure to start with. What are the things that you want to be able to achieve in your 1st 30 days, 60 days, you’re starting to crawl, figure it out. And then that 90 days, you’re like running with it. You’re in it with the organization, which is scary, I know at that stage, or like three months to get ramped up and ready to go, that’s a lot of time. And I need people to be delivering right now. And so it could be a little bit shorter and taper. But make sure that you as leaders and initial folks on the team are giving folks the time and space to slowly build up to delivering. They’re not going to get it from day one. They have no understanding of you as an organization, regardless of how much they’ve worked with you previously, to becoming a full time employee or partner. And so that onboarding is so important at that stage. The other thing I will say is feedback surveys. And I know everyone’s like engagement surveys, they’re so boring and they, no one actually does anything with them, but they are really important for us and the work that we do with our clients, especially those folks that are starting to hit high like tens maybe towards the 1015 mark. It can be an opportunity of a point of reflection for the organization to a celebrate some of the big wins that you’ve got into up until this point of like breaking into a new market, slowly getting towards product market fit, all of those things that take time so that team feedback survey to celebrate wins and then also to be like, hey, let’s co design and co create together what the future of this looks like. Take some time to reflect, put it in here. We’re going to amalgamate it all together and have a discussion. And so at that stage, you don’t need to have a consultant come in to build you out like a full flesh roadmap. Like, I can do that for you. But chances are the people on the team know what you need best and what would create the greatest amount of impact. And so that feedback survey and a regular cadence is going to be so important that we do this annually, where we do this every six months, and this will be your key place to share feedback and ensuring that there’s opportunity for that. And then the last thing that I’ll mention, so onboarding feedback surveys, the last thing that I’ll mention is performance. How do you as a leader, make sure that you’re delivering on the things that you say you’re going to do and have people hold you accountable? And so it’s usually at this stage that we start to see some version of a structured review. It doesn’t have to be a wild 360 review process with peer reviews, direct report reviews, all of those things. It could just be an open and honest conversation where you reflect on three questions prior to going into a call together to be like, hey, based on what you hope to achieve in 2024 or in this quarter, how are you delivering against it? And then being able to take that feedback from your direct reports or your peers is really important at that stage. So you’re grounded and all aligned and on the same page for what you’re working towards. And if it’s coming across as successful or not would be my top dues for that 10, 20, 25 ish mark for a team size.

[00:24:07] Calan Breckon: I really love a lot of what you just said, but I want to talk about one kind of specific spark spot about the reviewing of when you get to a larger space naturally and organically, what’s going to happen is that people are going to come on and start doing roles, but then somebody else is going to come on and it’s going to take a piece of somebody else’s role away. And these things are going to naturally kind of grow like a web out to a point where it gets to be like, well, who’s actually doing what? Cause we’ve hired different people and then took away certain different things. We need to come back together and do that review of like, okay, who’s doing what at this stage? Who’s overwhelmed? Who could do a little bit more? What have we learned in our individual roles of like, oh, I discovered this and we had no idea about it. Maybe there’s a future role in there for a new hire in the future that, that we can then go, okay, that’s going to be something important that we hire for in the future. And we can lay that all out and everybody can get a lot more clear of what their role is. And we as a team and an organization can get a lot more clear on the future roles we’re going to need so that we can alleviate some of that extreme pressure. Because when you’re a small team, everybody’s doing everything, but then as you grow, everybody kind of becomes their specializations. Like, you know, it’s not just the CEO who does everything. There eventually is the CTO, the CFO, the COO, the CMO, all these different specialties that then lead their teams and go into there. So I really think that that’s important, that a lot of people probably don’t take into account when they’re growing kind of these smaller but mighty teams when they’re moving forward.

[00:25:41] Clea Arrieta: Yeah, that calibration is so important. And we do a lot of conversations, especially, I will say as of late, with a lot of our leaders around organizational design and how to thoughtfully scale, because sure, you talk to a team of two or three and you say, what do you want to hire? They’re going to say, I would love anything and everyone because they’re just overwhelmed, period.

Which is not to invalidate their experience. I’m sure they would love everyone. But how can we actually think from a place of strategy of who we want to invest in next? What will create the largest impact for us? Which goes back to the documentation side of things. And one of the things we advise on for our smaller teams is to be time blocking, whether it be in your Google calendar, your Microsoft Teams, whatever integrations you have to figure out, like how much of your time is focused on marketing, how much of it is on HR, interpersonal, the different buckets of work that you can anticipate day to day and just track that over time. And then when you do get to that conversation with your leaders and you’re calibrating, you have data accompanied with it to be like, hey, I actually over indexed and did like 30 hours of additional administration scheduling interviews in for people, then maybe that means you need to take on an agency for a temporary basis to support with that higher and not full time versus, hey, I was on social media 20 hours a week every week for the past three months. Sounds like you need an in house HR person and so, or an in house marketing person and so I think that’s what’s most important, being able to document, have that data calibrate together and then prioritize. What does it look like for us to need to hire? Like when we hit X amount of revenue or when we see X amount of hours being spent on XYZ, that will unlock these next things. And bringing other folks, especially at that stage, part of the conversation will help increase, like, I would say, buy in towards the mission and vision of the organization and have them feel heard. Because the worst thing that we see is where you have a CTo that’s like, I need a bunch of developers, and their CEO founder is like, yeah, we’ll get that eventually. And the poor CTO feels like they’re drowning and they don’t have the support they need versus if the CTO knows that when we get to this point in the raise, this is what we’re going to look into, or when the scale of the work is going to be x amount of hours, that’s when we’ll start to hire. And so this is the reason for tracking. Then they’re a little bit more bought in, more retained, less likely to churn, because at this stage, we can’t afford any churning because it’s very expensive to have someone leave and then rehire. And so bringing people throughout that process, I think, helps mitigate that in the future.

[00:28:21] Calan Breckon: Definitely. So we’ve talked a lot about logistics in terms of HR. How can we bring the fun into HR? What are some things that you do on the fun side of HR for smaller teams or small to medium sized teams?

[00:28:38] Clea Arrieta: I think the biggest thing is that we’re human. We are human beings that are functioning under the umbrella of capitalism. But first and foremost, we are humans. And so your job is not meant to be your be all, end all, which is different, difficult for founders to hear, because for them, this is their baby, this is their entire life and focus and mission. But for the people that you’re bringing in, it is not. And that tough truth is often difficult to hear. And so how I would say we like to bring the fun is in our check ins. I will say a practice that Brayden early is in for our traditions is that on our Monday morning check ins, we provide a scale from zero to ten for two different categories. Zero to ten for how you’re feeling from a capacity perspective. Ten being, I’m so overwhelmed, I cannot take any more client work on. And it’s feeling stretched versus we like to keep our folks at like a six or a seven, and we also like to include a sliding scale for how was your weekend? How are you feeling internally outside of work? Because beyond the capacity of what you’re feeling day to day, how are you feeling as a human being? I’ll share that, but my rating that I shared with my team today we’re recording on a Monday was a nine because I had a weekend that was full and filled with social activities. But I’m not a ten because I’m tired. And that’s something to factor in. And that was a great opportunity for us as an organization to talk about how can we flex things, how’s my capacity with my clients, and how can we work as a team together. And so that being an opportunity for us to think of fun and human and bring that into our space. Another thing is shoutouts. People love when you tell them that they’re doing great work and it’s important to be able to share it with them in a way that they’ll receive it. Not everyone wants you to post on LinkedIn about how they’re the best person you’ve ever worked with. Some people love it, some people hate it. And so we always do shout outs on our Monday calls. We know who on our team likes to have those specific call outs in slack, or if a client shouts them out on LinkedIn, etcetera. So figuring out how you celebrate people is important, and doing it as often as possible is something that I would definitely recommend, because people like to feel good when they’re doing good work.

[00:30:54] Calan Breckon: 110%. When I worked in big kind of corporate settings, not being recognized for anything and just feeling like you’re worked to the bone was like, what’s the point? But even that one person, that one little call out or that one senior who like, was like, hey, hey, I see you doing this. I recognize that this is amazing. Regardless of the rest of the world, that was a human seeing another human doing something and, like celebrating it. Even those little tiny things make a world of difference. And I don’t think enough people recognize that for sure.

[00:31:28] Clea Arrieta: Like, I think my work sits at the intersection of DEI often, and I think of the platinum role of doing for others how they would like to be experienced, like, treating those people in that way. And I think really understanding how does that person like to be acknowledged, to be seen, to be validated and following through on those things, which is a great opportunity for you to embed in your onboarding process as you’re continuing to scale. Getting to know who that person is and how they like to be celebrated is something that we try to infuse in all of our onboarding practices, and that’s a great way to celebrate that person down the line out of the blue. And it feels so great.

[00:32:05] Calan Breckon: Definitely.

Any last wise words for everybody when they’re thinking about their age? HR journey?

[00:32:12] Clea Arrieta: I’ll just say that you’re not by yourself, even if it feels like you’re by yourself, especially at that size and stage like lean on your community. I know Queer tech has been a great place for me to find other queer leaders. I know there are many other organizations and nonprofits that folks can lean into, but also your family and friends are a great opportunity to lean on. You’re never by yourself. There are lawyer templates out there. There’s guidance from investors or your board and, and there’s of course, us, upright and early, that are happy to answer questions that come up. And so just make sure that you’re leaning on your community because it is not just you by yourself, it’s everyone else around you supporting you.

[00:32:50] Calan Breckon: Yes, you do not succeed as an individual. You succeed in community. You succeed as a team. And I take that on 100%. Where can folks find out more about you? Reach out to you. Find out more about all the good stuff.

[00:33:05] Clea Arrieta: Yeah, you can meet me on meet me. You can find out more about me on LinkedIn. I am a LinkedIn sleuth. I am embarrassed to say. I’m one of these people that are on it multiple times a day. So you can send me a note on LinkedIn at Clea Arrieta, or you can also subscribe to our bright and early newsletter where we post a newsletter weekly about top tips, what’s coming up from a compliance perspective, stat, holidays, days of acknowledgement, all of those things, as well as all of our guides. And so those are the two places that I would say you can reach out for any HR support.

[00:33:36] Calan Breckon: Magical. And I will make sure to have all those in the show notes for all of you folks listening. Thank you so much Clea for coming on. This has been absolutely magical and very enlightening around HR.

[00:33:47] Clea Arrieta: Thank you for having me. It’s always so fun.

[00:33:50] Calan Breckon: What a magical episode with Clea. Thank you so much for tuning in today. Don’t forget to hit that subscribe button. And if you really enjoyed today’s episode, I would love a star rating from you. The business gay podcast is written, produced and edited by me, Calan Breckon. Thanks for tuning in. Peace, love, Rainbows.