When Entrepreneurship Meets Activism

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Welcome to the Business Gay Podcast where we talk about all things business, marketing and entrepreneurship. I’m your host Calan Breckon and on today’s episode I have Michael Venturiello. Michael is a historian, writer, educator, and New York City tour guide. He is the founder of Christopher Street Tours, an LGBTQ+-owned and -operated walking tour company with a mission to increase access to LGBTQ+ history by sharing stories and uplifting the voices of those who paved the way before us. Michael has been recognized as one of FindSpark’s ‘Top LGBTQ+ Influencers & Thought Leaders Transforming the Workplace Through Innovation and Impact’ and as a ‘Block Star of the Village’ by Schneps Media. He has spoken at various organizations including New York University, the LGBTQ+ Wedding Congress, and Christian Dior, with his work featured in Time Out, National Geographic Travel, and Attitude magazine.

I’m excited to dive into sustainable entrepreneurship and activism with Michael, so let’s jump in

Hey Michael, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. How are you doing?

[00:01:53] Michael Venturiello: I’m good, Calan. Thanks so much for having me today. I really appreciate it.

[00:01:56] Calan Breckon: Yeah, I’m really excited to dive into what you are doing. So tell us, let’s start off with a little bit more about what Christopher Street Tours is. Tell us a little bit more about it.

[00:02:06] Michael Venturiello: So Christopher Street Tours is an LGBTQ walking tour company that offers LGBTQ walking tours and experiences. We started in 2018, just me, kind of a passion project, a side hustle. And it started just as queer walking tours in the Village, but as time sort of evolved I realized people are really looking for a walking tour but also for much more. So we started offering some other experiences, meetings with LGBTQ activists. I started doing speaking engagements. So it’s really sort of like anything LGBTQ related around History and activism is where Christopher Street Tours comes in, both in New York City and beyond.

[00:02:48] Calan Breckon: Okay, so it’s not just New York specific. There is a couple other spots.

[00:02:52] Michael Venturiello: Yeah. So we have our New York City walking tour. But, you know, the pandemic was sort of pros and cons, I think, for a lot of businesses. But one of the great things that came about for Covid, for us, was this idea of virtual engagement and what that meant for a business, especially as our mission was to help increase access to LGBTQ history, people didn’t have to travel all the way across the country or across the world to come learn about this history in Greenwich Village. It meant that I could give a zoom presentation to thousands of people at a college or a university or a corporate organization and share a little bit more about that history.

Since COVID has sort of died down a little bit and we’re back out in the world. That also has allowed me to now travel and do some speaking engagements all across the country, again, sharing that mission, sharing the stories of LGBTQ folks that have paved the way before us. So our tour is centric to New York City, but the work that we do really does expand outwards.

[00:03:54] Calan Breckon: So I want to acknowledge that it’s really important that we recognize that there’s so many different types of entrepreneurship in the world. And even though a lot of the focus tends to be on, like, big tech and big business and building a big business, it’s really important to recognize that entrepreneurship can be on many different levels. And most entrepreneurship is on the level where it’s not about scaling massively and growing huge. It’s about consistency and showing up and supporting the people who do work with you and work for you, and that can be just as successful as any business. And so now, knowing that it isn’t a big startup tech type business, can you talk about how you structured your business model for both impact and sustainability? Sustainability, Yeah.

[00:04:42] Michael Venturiello: I think that’s a really great question, Callan, because in the initial stages of Christopher street tours, I think I was thinking about it from, like, more of a big tech startup perspective. My background was in corporate America, in tech specifically. So my brain was sort of wired in that, you know, I’m going to grow all across the world and have LGBTQ tours in every major city and thinking about it from that kind of perspective. But as it went on, it became clear to me that I really just needed to focus on our mission and our purpose and what we wanted to do. And, yes, there is LGBT history all over the country, and all over the world, and you could have an LGBT tour in every city. But that wasn’t necessarily what Christopher Street Tours was. We’re named Christopher street after Christopher street in New York City, where the Stonewall Inn lives. So New York is kind of a third character here. It’s, like, pretty central to the work that we do. So I think when we think about impact and how do we make that sustainable, I think it’s talking about what are the products that we’re offering. It’s not necessarily growing up or growing out, but I think for me, it was more kind of digging deeper into what can we offer in New York City and really diversifying our product and our market in that kind of way. So a good example, when I first named my business, it was just Christopher Street Tours, and on the website, everything was about tours. But now I’ve kind of expanded to, say tours and experiences, because not only do we offer walking tours, but we can do curated experiences. We can do weekend queer weekend trips in the city, or whatever else folks are kind of looking for. So I think because of that, the impact has been able to grow a lot more just outside of walking tours. But then that also helps me create a sustainable business model, because there’s a little bit more to work with than just quote, unquote, just a walking tour.

[00:06:36] Calan Breckon: So I want to expand a little bit on the diversification of your revenue streams that you just talked about.

Can you spread out and tell us more about what those options are and what they look like and how you’ve noticed what’s working and what’s positively adding to the bottom line? And then maybe some experiences afterwards, we’ll go into what ended up not working. You go, okay, that maybe wasn’t a good expansion. So let’s talk about those diversifications and how you did grow in a. In a good, sustainable way into those different spheres.

[00:07:10] Michael Venturiello: Yeah. And if it’s okay with you, Kellen, maybe I can start with, like, the not great ways.

[00:07:14] Calan Breckon: Okay, perfect. Yeah, we’ll start there, and then we’ll end on the great.

[00:07:17] Michael Venturiello: Okay.

[00:07:18] Calan Breckon: Yeah.

[00:07:18] Michael Venturiello: Only because it was because of not great expansions. And I say not great, but maybe not as profitable.

It was great. It just wasn’t as profitable, you know, but that’s what sort of led me to then think about other ways that Christopher Street Tours could grow. And that’s really where we landed. So initially, when I was thinking about growth and diversification of revenue streams, I was thinking tours in every major city. And coincidentally, it came about one of my tour guides who was in New York was moving to the Boston area. And I said, hey, maybe you could create an LGBT tour in Boston and we could start expanding that way. And around the same time, there was a woman who gives LGBTQ tours in a different city. So I was, like, talking to her about maybe buying that business and, you know, slowly kind of expanding the reach of, like, all these LGBTQ tours. And sort of, to my surprise, initially, no one was booking the Boston tour. No one was interested, it seemed. You know, of course there were people that would reach out, and we had a couple bookings here and there, but it was certainly nothing like the profit in New York City.

And upon further reflection, I sort of realized, you know, when you think about, at least in the United States or on the east coast, queer history or LGBT activism, New York is the city that comes to mind. And of course, that exists in other places. But if you have a group of tourists or friends or whoever that are going to a destination and something on that list is going to be an LGBTQ walking tour, it’s going to be New York City. So because of those, quote unquote, failed attempts or less profitable kind of attempts to go into other cities, I said, well, what can we do in New York? Like, there’s so much potential here outside of a walking tour that people are really hoping to get. And where that came from, me was kind of thinking about my business from the perspective of different audiences. So for Christopher Street Tours, is it a gay business? Is it a tourism business? Is it a gay tourism business? Like, where do these sort of audiences intersect and who am I trying to reach? And it’s. It’s kind of all of the above. You know, when we think about marketing and strategy, we want to reach queer folks, but we also want to reach tourists. And our sweet spot, of course, is queer tourists, you know, that are. They’re visiting the city. So in thinking about what queer folks and tourists are looking for, a tour is great. But after doing these tours for six years, I realized I have a lot of connections in the community. You know, people that own the Stonewall Inn, and I’m able to work with them and say, hey, maybe we could do, like a tour and a drink, or maybe we could do like a bar tour. And the Stonewall is kind of like the pinnacle stop on this tour. Even just friends, you know, we’re activists and colleagues that have become really close friends where when people come to the city, it’s great to hear it from me, but to maybe talk to someone who is actually there you know, who has been an activist for decades and in the tourism world, you know, talking about business and profit, people will pay for that. People will pay to have a drink at Stonewall because that’s a premium experience. They’ll pay to meet and greet with an LGBTQ activist who can share their experiences with them over the last couple 40 years living in New York City. Because that’s. Those aren’t experiences that they can necessarily get at home or just on their own. So we started crafting these sort of really high end, luxury, unique, tailored experiences that people can experience, for lack of a better word, when they come to New York City where they can come on a tour, they can see the sights, but then if they want to dive a little bit deeper, then we offer all of those options as well.

[00:11:09] Calan Breckon: Like the full experience. I love that you do that. The most memorable tour that I’ve ever gone on. I lived in London in the UK for a while, and I went on a Jack the Ripper tour. And they had actually had subtle actors implemented into the scenery. And so when they were talking about something, you saw somebody dressed up in a certain way, walking down an alley or doing a thing, and you were like, wait, hold on, like, am I tripping? Or is like that? And they weren’t obvious enough to be like, oh, that’s an actor part of this whole thing. But it added to the experience of all of it. And it’s those little tiny things that make such a difference in an experience like this.

What about the diversification in terms of branching out and doing talks or adding talking on, like the digital platform or having conversations maybe in corporate world or something like that?

[00:12:03] Michael Venturiello: Yeah, so that came about during COVID as well. So people were saying, you know, hey, Michael, we did your tour. We loved it. We had a great time. Could you do a virtual tour during COVID And it’s hard to do a virtual tour. Like, it’s not really. I don’t want to say it’s not as fun because there are some people that really have crafted that and are really skillful in delivering that. But I knew that wasn’t something that was necessarily of interest to me. Like, I think the best part about a walking tour is being there physically in person and seeing the sights. So I didn’t think a virtual tour was maybe the best offering that I could present. However, I kind of turned that to say, well, let me do maybe an hour long workshop or presentation or trivia event. You know, like, I came up with all these different products that I could offer Virtually. And that was sort of the start of like the Christopher street tour speaking engagements that kind of came to be. We worked with corporate organizations and schools and even libraries, like different community organizations that just wanted to have a little bit something educational for Pride. You know, people, when they think of pride, they think about celebrating and all the fun and the joy, and that’s really important too, especially now is like queer joy and having those moments, but also having the educational component too, and knowing why pride even began in the first place, I think is also really important. So then as again, Covid kind of slowly started to end and, you know, quote, unquote end, and people could go back out into the world. I started getting invited to different offices in different cities all around the country. Folks just want to learn more about this history and this activism.

But it’s always surprising to me when I talk about this and sort of the intentionality behind this sort of expansion, because I’ve never paid for an ad. Like, it wasn’t this sort of like, now I’m going to be super intentional about being a key speaker.

Folks just care about this, you know, and when they Google queer activism or LGBT history, Christopher Street Tours just has a really good SEO, which I don’t. I’m not going to even pretend like how I got that, but I’m really glad that we have it and then we can continue to go out there and share the work that we’re doing and share these stories of people that have paved the way. So it all just kind of happened very naturally. But now being in business, you know, for six plus years, I like to think that I’m a little bit more intentional about how I’m reaching out to potential clients for speaking gigs and other opportunities.

[00:14:31] Calan Breckon: Yeah, that makes me really happy. I’m like, my background is in SEO, so it makes me happy that, like, you, you’ve got that going on because that is an important part. And that kind of leads perfectly into this next question, because I was. You did mention ads. Like, you’ve never spent on ads. Like, how do you market your business effectively? Because, you know, what are some of those key strategies you’ve used to grow your audience in today’s world? It’s all about like, attention, economy, and how do you get that? And there’s so many times that, you know, you’ll hear somebody say, like, oh, I wish I’d known about this when I went to such and such, or I wish I’d known, because unless you’re that type of person who naturally wants to like, oh, I’ll go on a walking tour or do a thing. How do you get in front of people to broaden that audience to market yourself without having to pay for ads or without having, like, coming across as, like, pushy or whatever?

[00:15:24] Michael Venturiello: Yeah. You know, that’s so funny that you asked that. You know, I think it’s really thinking about your business and what makes sense. You know, there’s not, I don’t think, like a blanket strategy for marketing for everybody, which, you know, I’ve talked to some marketing agencies and you can tell the ones that really take the time to like, get to know you and know your business and know what works versus the ones that are like, this is just the strategy that we do with everyone. And for me, I’ve always sort of leaned on the more like, brand forward strategy and like story forward strategy. And for me, you know, I could say my business relies on storytelling. Like, that’s. That’s what we do. Like, that’s my job is to be a professional storyteller sharing queer stories of, you know, people from the past however many decades. Whether it’s a speaking gig or a tour or these experiences, like, all of it sort of falls under storytelling. So thinking about, like a paid ad, for example, I don’t have experience doing this, so, you know, it could bring me billions of dollars. I’m not sure. But when I think about, like a static photo, let’s say, on like a social media campaign, it would have to be a really good photo to be able to tell a story, like the story that I want to tell. So instead, I actually found that TikTok is an incredible marketing strategy for us and not the TikToks that are like, hey, I’m Michael. I give gay tours in New York. Book my tour. Like, those TikToks never do well, even though, you know, maybe intuitively, like, you think that’s what you should be doing. But what I found works is like giving people a snippet of what I do on my tour or for my speaking engagements, which is just telling stories like, hey, everyone, I was walking around the Greenwich Village today and, and I saw this progress pride flag. And these are the components of the flag, and these are what the colors means. And this is what it is.

Now that you have all that information, if you want to learn more, join us on a tour or check out our website. It’s like they’re. They’re already in because they’re so engaged with what I’m saying. And then you just kind of like drop it at the End. And people are like, okay, cool. That’s a cool way to learn more. But it’s the stories. It’s like being story forward. And I think honestly, that trickles into everything. Like social media. We. We try and do that too, or we kind of lead with social media. But even just like our website, like the photos that we have on our website and like the language that we put, like, we really want to make sure that our, our brand is forward and our purpose is forward. We’re not, quote unquote, just a walking tour is what I like to say. It really has a deeper meaning, a deeper purpose, and people purchase because of that. Like, they feel an emotional connection. And I think that’s really important when we’re talking about marketing and strategy and how to sort of put your business out there and what people see, what’s the public vision?

[00:18:18] Calan Breckon: Yeah, I was going to say that, like, that makes 100% sense to me. With what you do. Leading with story, people connect with humans like other humans connect with other humans. And story is how we’ve connected throughout our whole entire history. Right. Like, before written language, there was spoken language and it was done through story. And so leading especially on a platform like TikTok, where it’s very. My experience of TikTok is it’s. I only like to engage with the very personable. Like, I’m a human being right here. Like, this is not. This is very raw, organic. Like, that is the energy. And so when you come across that and you’re telling that in your stories on your TikTok or your social, where it’s like leading with the story of, like, this is a piece of education or a piece of history. People like to learn. And if they’re learning, then you will stay top of mind for like, oh, well, if I ever go to New York, I’d love to do a full tour and like, get this whole experience and then that gets shared with other people because it’s about leading with value and leading with that story. And it’s the same that I try and teach clients about with SEO. There’s so many people who try and, like, fast track it and, like, skip ahead and like, don’t want to put in the work. But if you’re providing a blog post or an article and you’re leading with true value and true story, it’s not about just the information. It’s about how are they getting to that information. And some would argue, like, oh, they don’t have the attention span. I was like, yes, but the right people will have the attention span, because if they’re invested enough for that, they’re invested enough to also then give you their money. And that, at the end of the day, is the important part in the business aspect of it all, so that, you know, it totally makes sense with what you’re doing. As somebody who combines activism and business, how do you make sure that your activism leads to tangible outcomes within the business, Especially in today’s world, with what is going on down in the US and around the world as a whole?

I think this is a really important question and a really important aspect that it’s happening. But also you can measure those things and see them tangibly, because then being able to share that back and be like, no, this is actual evidence that this changed this thing or helped over here. Do you have any of that that you can share with us?

[00:20:31] Michael Venturiello: I think after giving these tours for these many. This many years, I think the thing that queer history has taught me is there’s no one right way to be an activist. There’s a hundred stories that I could tell you of a hundred people that have changed the world, and we might not even know their names, and they all did something different. I think traditionally, we think of activism as thousands of people marching in the streets, you know, with their fists up in the air and holding protest signs. And that is activism, and that’s really important. But how I started to reframe what it meant to be an activist and specifically as a business person was I was telling these stories all around my tour, and there was some of that, but it was more just like, well, this person had a special skill, and they wanted to see a change in the world. And then they did this thing, and they did like, they. And then they changed the world. Like, I could tell you a couple examples maybe, but Larry Kramer, for example, was kind of infamously known as, like, this Angry man, but was a writer and who started ACT up, the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power. There’s this iconic clip of him during the height or the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, like, shouting out about AIDS as a plague. And, you know, nobody’s really doing anything about it. But he wasn’t an activist at that time. He was a writer. So what he did was he used his voice, both literally, but also in the written word, to educate people around AIDS and around safe sex practices and things that generally people didn’t really want to hear at that time. But he made sure that it was really important, and he did that. And that, I think, is activism, even if it Wasn’t necessarily, you know, chanting in the streets how I think our tours are activism and sort of how that relates to business.

I think the biggest way to be an activist or an advocate is just living your true, authentic self. Like, that is such an act of resistance and resilience in a world, like you said. But, you know, in the United States, but really in the world where queerness is being erased and queer joy is being attempted to be taken away from us, what’s, like, the coolest thing to do in that case is stand out in a group of fully open queer people learning about queer history, people that have paved the way, and then inspiring and empowering people on how they can continue the way forward in this time, you know, And I think a big part of that is like, listen, this is not new. Like, we as a queer community, we’ve been there, we’ve done that. Like, we faced terrible leadership, oppressive governments in the past, and this is how people have rose up against that, and this is how we can do it today.

So it sounds kind of, you know, frou frou maybe, or like, woo woo, a little bit of, like, inspiring people and empowering people to create positive social change. But it really is that. And I think in a tangible way. I always ask people at the end of the tour, like, remember one story that you took away and then share that with everybody that you know. And what we’re doing is we’re uplifting queer voices and sharing those stories. And the more that exists in the world, I think the harder it will be to continue this sort of oppressive regime because people are familiar then with queer folks with queer stories. And that’s just my sort of, like, personal philosophy.

I also think the last thing I’ll say on this is that I always encourage my tour guides to talk openly about whatever they want, like politics, the government, where we are in the world. And I think that openness is what encourages people to come back on our tours. And I don’t have any, like, specific data on that in terms of, like, if this person came back to this tour because of this reason. But I have gotten qualitative feedback in the past of, like, you know, this is the only place where I felt like I could actively engage in these sort of conversations with other queer people like me. Because, you know, maybe in New York or certain parts, we’re used to that. Like, we live in kind of a bubble, if you will, of, like, queerness. But if people are coming from other countries where being queer is still criminalized and still technically illegal and Then they come to New York City and engage in that conversation. To me, just that community, just that connection is a form of activism in itself because it shows queer resistance and queer joy. And I think that work is really important.

[00:25:18] Calan Breckon: I wholeheartedly agree. I think that just the act of being yourself openly is activism. You know, it has been, hopefully it won’t have to be the case into the future. I’m very, very hopeful of Gen Z. They’re one of the queerest generations and like absolutely adore them and love them. And I think that that was only because our generations and generations before us were the ones who were leaders and spearheading and being themselves. And that activism, even though the quote unquote energy of the activism maybe feels less than the active activism that has happened in the past by us still being ourselves loudly and proudly opens the door for everybody else to see us and say, okay, I see another person. Because I remember growing up, I, I just turned 38 and like there was like Ellen DeGeneres and like a couple other folks and then Will and Grace came along, but it was, it was so only allowed to be in this specific type or in this specific way. And now there’s so many possibilities out there. And I, I can see a correlation between that visibility and the queerness of Gen Z. And not saying that they all have to be queer, but they’re just so much more open to it and being like, yeah, like do whatever you want, be whoever you want to be. And talking about politics, a little bit of why I think we’re seeing what we’re seeing now is because the older generation that didn’t have that is clinging on to the way they want it to be because they don’t want change and they fear change and they’re terrified of the younger generation that’s just like, why are you holding on so desper desperately to these things? Like, can we just let it go and move on? And it’s these two extreme dynamics, which is wild, which I think also came about from technology, but yet wholeheartedly agree that just being yourself and sharing those stories allows other people around you to be like, even if they don’t say anything, even if, you know, whatever, it’s not mentioned. But that maybe closeted person who’s sitting there going like, okay, I at least feel safer in this space. And then being able to talk and having your folks on your tours actively talk and engage with people who come. I really love that because so many tours is like, you stand and listen. There’s no engagement. But the more engagement you have. That engagement is what creates the energy of community. And by creating that, you empower people to learn and grow from themselves and not just be spoken at. And so I think that that’s a really, really important aspect of the work that you’re doing.

[00:27:50] Michael Venturiello: Totally. Thank you so much. And, you know, I will say, kind of on that note, we do give youth specific tours, so it’s tailored a little bit towards, you know, middle school and high school students, where it is more engaging, there’s more questions, it’s more community building, and it’s shorter, just because, you know, their attention span is a little less. But why we give those tours and why I say that is because, you know, I’ve seen sort of the wide range of young LGBTQ people of this next generation, or I should just say young people in general, because, you know, sometimes we’ll have GSA groups of, like, sixth graders, which, I mean, I came out a little bit later. I was 19 when I came out, but, like, the fact that there was.

There are groups of sixth graders that have, you know, pronoun pins and their flags, and they’re out walking about in New York City and just so openly queer is so amazing to me.

But at the same time, we also give tours to people that visit New York City from all over the United States. And there might not be that kind of open queerness and that rainbow flag. And the best thing that I can do is kind of just show them, even in that short amount of time, that it is okay to be your true, authentic self. Like, even through my own example, you know, the rainbows I wear or the stories that I’m telling in history. Like, history is a form of representation. Like, we can look at history and see ourselves represented through these, like, incredible stories and activists and know that we’re not alone.

I will never know the full impact that Christopher Street Tours has, but my hope is that even if one closeted young person can see our tour or see someone represented in history where they say maybe it is okay to be myself, then I think it’s all worth it. So that’s where I’ll end on that.

[00:29:45] Calan Breckon: And it just goes to show, you don’t need to have this massive tech company or this massive behemoth, whatever, to make an impact in the world and to share that.

Wrapping things off. I probably shouldn’t have wrapped things off with this specific question, but in the current climate we are in, it’s very relevant in today’s world.

Politically, things are very tenuous to say the Least, are there any steps that you’re taking to protect your business or do you have any advice for other, maybe small business owners or folks who are in the same kind of world that you’re in that they can take to protect their business?

[00:30:25] Michael Venturiello: It’s a really good question and a sad question. You know, honestly, that we’re like talking about this, but I appreciate it because we have to be talking about this, this, you know, I think we’re living in reality and these are important conversations to have. So I think first and foremost I will acknowledge that I’m very lucky to be living in New York City, which, regardless of what happens on, you know, a national level, I think if certain laws are changed or, you know, accommodations or protections are taken away, I can’t imagine a world where New York City would be impacted by that or New York State. However, you never know. So I think it’s always good to be thinking about those things.

You know, this makes me think, when I talk to school groups, a lot of teachers kind of come in and they want the message of like, it’s okay to come out. And, you know, they want me to share that message, like, come out and live your true, authentic self. And I always need to sort of add a caveat that like, yes, and if you feel comfortable and safe and ready to do so, you know, like, I don’t want to be responsible for someone’s discomfort or even worse, feeling unsafe because they came out in the world. And maybe it’s similar for a business sense. You know, I wish that I could say, continue to operate your gay owned business and do whatever that you need to do, but if it becomes unsafe to do that, that. That’s a really interesting point, you know, a turning point of like, well, then what do you do in that case? I can give you a real example. Not with Christopher Street Tours, but before my tech stint, I used to work in higher education. And a lot of colleges and universities have sort of been pivoting because there was an executive order taking away diversity, education and inclusion.

We could talk about that a whole other episode. But you know, there’s a lot of colleges that have DEI departments or are doing DEI work and the thought is like, not we’re going to have to get rid of this completely, but it’s how do we pivot to still do important work that revolves around this and maybe we just don’t call it dei. So I know certain colleges have already sort of changed that wording and that language to, you know, the Office of Excellence. And they’re just calling it that because it is excellent, but they can’t technically call it dei. So I think a lot of this unfortunately is just semantics.

And I say that to say, like, I don’t want to diminish the real impact that that has on queer people.

However, I think in the case of like DEI programs, it’s just kind of thinking about how do you pivot to still do really important work for me, I have thought about this personally and I think instead of like gay, gay, gay, like, you know, queer tours, we would have to pivot if, if we had to. Right? But maybe it’s just social justice themed tours. And of course there’s still a rainbow, like people know what it is, but it’s just thinking about how we can continue to do the work under the constraints and the restraints that may or may not be put in place. I think my advice is to always have a backup plan and to always just be thinking about what that pivot could be. I think that’s just good business sense anyway, like regardless of the situation, regardless of who’s in office. But on the note, I was talking about before about how history, you know, there’s sort of a visibility in representation in history.

Queer people have never existed in a time where they were 100% completely free or lived under a government that was not repressive or oppressive in some kind of way. Like, this is not new. I think it’s new for a lot of us. I think this iteration of how we’re seeing this is new. But the idea of the criminalization or discrimination towards queer people and other groups we’ve seen before. So seeing that in history, learning from that, and then thinking how to make our own pivots, what makes sense for us personally as queer people, but also as businesses and queer owned businesses, I think is the next best step.

[00:34:41] Calan Breckon: And I will add to this because there are like actual physical things you can do. And for me, that is being in community and specifically the like organizations like the cglcc, Canada’s LGBTQ Chamber of Commerce, the nglcc, which is the national LGBTQ Chamber of Commerce down in the U.S. organizations like START out, get in, get involved with these queer business structures. Even if necessarily you don’t buy in or all this other kind of stuff, it still provides you with links and connections to other people doing the same work in business, in other things to. We need more than ever to come together and to support each other. And that’s just one way you can be plugged into a support system system. So you don’t feel like you’re a little island entrepreneurship. We. We kind of sometimes can feel like these little islands floating off by ourselves. And the more you can kind of plug into these structures, you feel like, not as alone while you’re going through this, because other people will say, oh, I’m going through it too. Maybe they have, you know, community meetups, online meetups. And then people can share their struggles and be like, oh, I’m feeling the same, or I’ve gone through the same. This is how I overcame it. Or this is what I found out you can do to kind of overcome or work through and all that. And so I think that that’s a real tangible piece that people can do in order to do that kind of stuff. This has been a fantastic conversation. I could talk for hours. I am a giant queer history buff. Like, I. I think it is so, so important that we tell our history and like, who is it? Like, the book of queer and like, all those things that, like, these things are so important for us to be louder and louder and louder because we are making progress. And we know we’re making progress because we’re being used, yelled at louder than we’ve ever been yelled at before. And that tells me something, is that they’re scared. And this is the last dying gasp to hold on to that power because they can see us coming. So with that, where can folks find out about Christopher Street Tours? Find out more about you booking, you booking tours, all that kind of stuff?

[00:36:45] Michael Venturiello: Yeah. Thank you. Everything is on our website, Christopherstreettours.com. We’re on most of the social medias, Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok at Christopher Street Tours if you want to follow along our storytelling journey. And that’s where you can find us.

[00:36:58] Calan Breckon: Fabulous. Well, thank you so much for being a guest, Michael.

[00:37:01] Michael Venturiello: Thank you so much. It was great chatting with you, Calan. I appreciate it.

[00:37:04] Calan Breckon: Thanks for tuning in today. Don’t forget to hit that subscribe button. And if you really enjoyed today’s episode, I would love a star rating from you. The Business Gay podcast is written, produced and edited by me, Calan Breckon. That’s it for today. Peace, love, rainbows.