Economic Resilience and Trade Wars

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Welcome to The Business Gay podcast where we talk about all things business, marketing and entrepreneurship. I’m your host Calan Breckon and on today, today’s episode I have founder and principal at Elle Community Strategies, Erica Charron. With more than a decade working in the non-profit community development sector, Erica founded Elle Community Strategies as a response to the evolving landscape of non-profit and corporate partnerships and the drive for collaborative social impact. She is the author of various publications exploring complex social issues through community based participatory research practices that aim to advance public policy. Erica is a certified diverse supplier with Canada’s 2SLGBTQI+ Chamber of Commerce, also known as the CGLCC, and a proponent of social change.

Erica and I dove deep on the balancing act between public, private and non-profit sectors when it comes to economic resilience and what the future might look like for Canada amid the ongoing trade war with the U.S. so with that, let’s jump in.

Hey Erica, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me.

[00:01:49] Erica Charron: Thank you for having me.

[00:01:51] Calan Breckon: Yeah, I’m really excited to dive into your just background and everything that you got going on because this time right now in the universe, in the world, a lot of these cross sections are happening. So with the work that you do with Elle Community Strategies, you bridge nonprofit and business and public sectors.

[00:02:11] Erica Charron: Yeah.

[00:02:11] Calan Breckon: How has this cross-sector perspective shaped your understanding of economic resilience?

[00:02:18] Erica Charron: Yeah, so I think, I think the typical understanding of economic resilience is, is the ability for an economy to withstand like a disruption or a shock and its ability to recover through those disruptions. So you think about the pandemic or you think about Even earlier, the 2008 financial crisis, so how we’re able to withstand those kinds of events. But I would also argue that it’s far more than that. I think one of the key insights that I’ve gathered from the position I sit in bridging these sectors of nonprofit and business and government is this notion that it goes beyond economic resilience goes far beyond like a financial strength. It’s about adaptability and collaboration and equitable developments.

So you know, for example, the nonprofit sector brings like a very, very deep understanding of community relationships and they often have really innovative grassroots solutions to very complex problems and crises even.

And they have a very unique expertise and knowledge of populations that are notoriously harder to reach, especially by governments.

While businesses can provide scale and financial resources and they can also be quite innovative in their solutions as well and providing nimble financial tools, the public sector plays a vital role in creating policy and infrastructure that can either enable or hinder long term resilience. So all three of these entities, I believe, cannot really exist without the other within the effort of a more resilient economy.

But you know, often there’s a lot of tension and there’s a lot of conflict between these three entities.

Often there are great values and philosophical differences between these actors, despite their interdependence. And what we do at L aims to bridge these groups by mobilizing knowledge and assets of each of these groups towards a common goal. So I think by weaving these perspectives together, we see that economic resilience depends on shared investment in policies that prioritize long term stability over short term profit centric gains.

And it underscores this need for cross sector partnerships to address systemic challenges like affordable housing, job access and capital distribution. And it’s a, you know, these are things that you can’t tackle in silos. They, they have to be tackled as a, as a collective.

[00:05:30] Calan Breckon: So yeah, yeah, this, there’s so many things I want to talk about in this conversation right now at this crucial moment in time. Like we are living through quite unprecedented history making kind of vibes right now. We are in Canada ourselves. So we’re experien one side of things. And it’s, you know, it’s no surprise that down in the US they’re experiencing something very different. I would venture to say that in the US they have leaned fully into the pure capital only get rid of all the nonprofit defunding everything because they look at it as waste and they’re like, this is how we’re going to be prosperous. Whereas over here in the conversation we’re having, and what I’d like to believe in Canada is that we still do truly believe in the fact that we need these three sectors to overlap in order for some, like society to function as A whole and to function well and to support each other.

I don’t want to like, I don’t want to like, project in the future, but we do have an election coming up in Canada and all these things are kind of happening. What I guess I’ll just ask this quick question is what do you see in our landscape of Canada in terms of these kind of cross sectors in the hopes that you have, that you’re like, yes, I think we are set up well to kind of weather this current trade war storm or not.

[00:06:59] Erica Charron: So what are you saying? Are you asking what, how are we set up between these three entities to weather the storm that we’re experiencing?

[00:07:07] Calan Breckon: Yeah, from what you’re seeing and what you experience compared to the US They’ve gone full on capital. That’s what they’re focused on here in Canada. What’s your experience and knowledge and what do you think we’re going to do in terms of weathering the storm, of the trade war that comes from the.

[00:07:23] Erica Charron: U.S.

well, I don’t, I don’t know if I can speak to what we are going to do. What I hope to see is that we lean into this notion of, of, of diverse economies. And that doesn’t just mean, you know, that doesn’t just mean we are having a focus on inclusion of different race and genders and sexualities. It also means investing in a diverse economy, creating access for inclusive entrepreneurship. And then I think it also means that one of the things that I see often in policy making and policy tables, especially at the government level, is there is a tendency to omit the community voices and there is a power dynamic between the policymakers in government and the business sector simply because you can implement, you have the power to implement policy and you have the money to make something happen. Community voices don’t generally have those two things except for their efforts and advocacy.

What I hope to see is that there’s a more equitable collaboration table between these three, these three entities.

One where community voices are brought to the table and valued for their expertise because they do possess a very specific knowledge base and set of skills that these other two sectors do not. And this knowledge is important in creating equitable policies, specifically towards issues like social housing, housing insecurity, homelessness and poverty.

You cannot, you’re not going to be able to create adequate policy if you’re not involving the voices of those who are working in direct contact with those with those populations. So, you know, that’s what I hope to see.

Whether it happens, it’s hard to say. I Can I can speak? You know, at the provincial level here in Manitoba, we currently have an NDP government who typically campaigns on, on policies that are people centered.

But you know, interestingly, our current government, we’re seeing some really interesting policy decisions that are favoring business sectors.

You know, our, our premier implemented like a gas tax holiday, which is notoriously, you know, quite a conservative policy move, and that the revenues we could have gathered from that specific policy could have been implemented into, you know, more socially conscious avenues. We have a, we have a, like a really big housing problem here. There’s no housing. We have a high rate of homelessness. So, you know, it is interesting to think about the way that we can invest in these issues using the expertise from all three actors. But I do believe there needs to be a lot more respect between these three entities.

[00:10:56] Calan Breckon: Yeah, I can, I fully agree. Housing across Canada, across North America is a big issue. And that’s a whole other conversation that we could definitely dive into. But we’re going to keep the train on the track. Much of your, so much of your nonprofit clientele work is to address complex social issues like mental health, poverty, housing, homelessness.

On one side, your public sector clientele, like universities, look to amplify nonprofit voices through research that underscores policy advancement. And on the other side, your private sector clients reach out for your services in hopes of learning how to be a part of the solutions towards more equitable communities. So how might these social challenges evolve in Canada’s changing economy and what business opportunities might emerge from addressing these?

[00:11:47] Erica Charron: Uh huh.

Sorry.

[00:11:50] Calan Breckon: It’s a big one. Just.

[00:11:51] Erica Charron: It is.

[00:11:53] Calan Breckon: Let me just write in the conversation.

[00:11:55] Erica Charron: Yeah, okay. So I think before answering the root of the question, I think it’s important to preface that the reason we are seeing so much inequity when we walk around in our communities is because of the swiftly growing disparity between upper and lower class and the erosion of the middle class and inequitable taxation structures and improper collection of taxes, especially at the top 1%.

And the ongoing systemic issues perpetuated by decades of unchecked capitalism and neoliberal policy.

You know, for decades these policies inherently have benefited corporate elites and have curated the monopolies that we see today. And to, you know, these monopolies essentially rule the markets and make it very, very difficult for new businesses to break through and gain a competitive ed, all the while intentionally neglecting marginalized communities and excluding diversity from the markets in the playing field.

And it’s far worse now post Covid than it was five years ago.

It’s crazy to see.

So it’s important to remember this when using language like business opportunities, I say in air quotes when thinking about addressing social challenges.

Almost feels gross to make any kind of alignment between the idea of opportunities within these issues like housing, insecurity and homelessness. Because our conventional understanding of a business opportunity is one where in theory, you see a gap in the market and you can capitalize off of it and profit. Right.

So I would frame the concept of opportunity within this context is I believe it’s an opportunity for businesses to gain a more blended value proposition by placing more focus on value streams like social capital, physical capital and collaboration, in addition of course, to financial capital for the purpose of community development.

So, you know, these issues are not just community issues then. They’re not just charity issues.

They’re not simply the shortcomings of an individual or worse, some believe to be the moral failings of people. These issues are systemic issues that have created inequitable access to opportunities and that exists in the business sector as well. It’s not just unique to lower class.

You can see enclaves of this issue in every sector.

And so I believe we all have a role to play in creating solutions. And true collaboration is the opportunity, in my opinion. And it’s collaboration that recognizes and respects the strengths and assets of each sector and what they bring to the table.

And also, very importantly, that the decision making table is also chaired equitably and that the knowledge bases of these entities are properly considered and utilized.

So we often see this teaming up of government agencies and private sector and creating like innovative fiscal policies to solve social issues. But again, you know, as I mentioned, they often leave out important community voices that would inform that policy making.

So in terms of how these challenges like mental health and housing insecurity and food insecurity might evolve in our changing economy, well, we’ve just been pushed into a trade war and you know, our sovereignty as a nation is being threatened. So I think these challenges became a whole lot more complicated. And it’s forcing us as a nation, as an economy, to reshape how we engage in collaboration with different sectors across the world, because we have to. And you know, the sustainability of our economy and our communities depend on looking at new markets and new avenues. So what I hope we take away from this crisis is that our evolving economy requires us to be more innovative and astute with policy development. And what I hope is that that same innovation is applied to issues like housing insecurity and poverty.

[00:16:49] Calan Breckon: Now, there’s so much you said so good there, there, there’s an imbalance. Everybody can see it. It’s, it’s no mistake. We all know it’s there. We all experience it. There was a marked shift from stakeholders to shareholders and it all became about the value being given to people who aren’t actively working in the business or helping to develop the business other than financially. And we, I think as a, as a society, as a whole, I think the US led the charge, but we are so close that we followed that charge.

[00:17:25] Erica Charron: Yeah.

[00:17:25] Calan Breckon: And we allowed that imbalance to happen. Not maybe to the degree that they do, but I think the future businesses and the, and the future opportunities that exist are going to be businesses that can move back to that stakeholder value system where it’s the people who work for the business and the people the businesses are supporting and really putting a focus there instead of the shareholder maximizing value, sucking all the wealth out of it in order to give it to whoever’s invested in the company. I think that that’s a really important aspect of business that looking into the future, the ones that are going to survive are the ones that are truly walking the walk and talking the talk and putting their money where their mouth is in order to survive, to get there. I think that that’s huge in, in moving into the future. And I think there’s going to be a lot of innovative things coming around. I know a couple people working on some new banking app. Banking app adjacent technology where you know, a lot of the world works off of. They don’t have a banking system. They all pool money together. They put in a hundred bucks each month and then once a year you get that pot and that’s kind of their savings. Well now North America, because it’s basically a third world country in a first world country in a lot of parts. Ye these technologies can now be developed so that there’s more safety and security around that like, you know that, that one friend’s not just going to like screw off with all the money and not put their potted. And I see these innovations coming around to go back to community, go back to supporting each other, going back to all these things. And so I hope so, I hope so. Fingers crossed.

[00:19:05] Erica Charron: Yeah, I mean I think, I think you know, we know that the younger generations like especially Gen Z, Gen Z, Gen Z. How do I say, you know, they, they, they are far more socially conscious than all of the preceding generations. They are much more aware of the, you know, wealth inequities in the world and, and they value, especially in a In a, you know, professional life work context, they value working for an organization or a company that, that does have a sort of corporate responsibility or social impact angle to it. We know that the younger generations value.

[00:19:51] Calan Breckon: That a lot more big time.

[00:19:53] Erica Charron: So it, and in, you know, I can’t really, I can see what’s happening in the States from my television. I can’t really speak to, you know, what it’s like to work there. But in Canada I think we, we are resisting this, it seems we are resisting this, this influence to give up on, on this IDE stuff that’s happening in the States. And, and we’re, we’re actually embracing it and looking to maintain it in, through all of our sectors. And I think I’m hoping our, our governments and our politicians really know the value of, of what that brings to our economy. Because you know, if, if you’re smart about it, the younger generation who is coming up is, is their values are a lot different. They’re not just profit centric values.

[00:20:46] Calan Breckon: Yeah, I’ve seen a doubling down in just my experience in my business entrepreneurship I’ve seen and somebody who’s traveled back and forth from the States to do conferences and other things for Canada. My feeling and my energy and vibe has always been they truly are investing. And I see the companies actually doing the work. I see the things actually coming from it and I value that because I know and feel like as a Canadian we do truly value that as part of our society.

[00:21:15] Erica Charron: Yes.

[00:21:16] Calan Breckon: Especially younger generations. And when I would go to the US it always felt like it was always just a box that they were checking a lot of the time. And just the energy they carry it.

We are so similar in a lot of ways but we are could not be more different in two different countries in how we are as a people and how we interact. And it’s very transactional in the US and it’s very relational in Canada and I’m, I really value that. So I hope and I know that well, if you’re going to survive into the future as a business, you’re just going to have to either get with the times or fuck off. Like it is what it is. Like it is what it is. Either evolve or die. Like that is the world.

Oh totally. Considering. So considering the challenges that we’re facing right now, economically, politically, how might we futureproof Canadian small businesses in our current climate? Do you have any thoughts around that?

[00:22:09] Erica Charron: The future proof. It just seems like such a futile concept nowadays, doesn’t it?

You know, if there’s, if there’s One thing I’ve seen through my area of work and the research that I do is that crises can often illuminate kindling for new and great opportunities because you’re forced to think creatively.

So in terms of future proofing, I don’t know if anything these days can really prepare us for the kind of bonkers events we’re seeing in the world and.

But I have found it necessary as a business owner to ensure that you can, you can pivot on a dime and pivot hard if you need. And that means your services, your products and thinking creatively about how to, how you’re going to access new markets or audiences quickly as when challenges arrive.

And you know, I’m also in a period of transition myself as a business owner as a result of the changes in my clients behaviors as a result of, of what’s happening in the world. It’s really interesting to see and it’s, it’s also, you know, it’s kind of stressful. So as I think, you know, when I think of future proofing I’m going to give maybe a boring answer, but I think it means going back to basics, at least for me and being diligent about revisiting that, that product market fit analysis and reconducting an analysis of external influences that may disrupt our operations and process and growth. Doing a risk assessment, using crises like the pandemic and that we’ve learned from and experienced already to inform, you know, our future projections possibly and scenario planning.

You know, I believe we have to now factor these, these events like trade wars into our kind of future planning.

I also personally think a lot of businesses take on too much risk and debt in today’s volatile world. And I feel there might be some merit to sacrificing the speed at which you grow to ensure long term sustainability and proper risk management.

You know that’s a boring answer, but.

[00:24:32] Calan Breckon: No, but I fully agree. I 100 agree that there has been way too much sexiness put on growing fast, move fast and break things. It pisses me the fuck off because I am one of these. Build a pyramid, not a skyscraper because that skyscraper is not going to last nearly as long as the pyramid. The pyramids have been around for a fuck ton because they have a fat ass and they build up strategically and, and I get it, people want, you know, we, we want all these fast, snappy, quick, quick, quick. But if you want to build a business that lasts for generations and supports not only you, but families and in a community that becomes the world that you Live in. When you work and build one of these big giant companies, you, you need to spend the time and effort and energy to do that methodically and to really put energy into how this is going to look 10, 20, 50 years down the lane and be like, okay, if I want this to be one of the outcomes, what do I have to implement now? And so many people, especially the sexy tech bros and blah, blah, blah, they just want to make money fast and live fast and be crazy. And I’m like, well, that’s why we’re in this fucking mess we’re in right now. So we need to go back to the basics like you said, and really focus, I think a lot more on that social community side of things. Not making like your business, your family, that I hate that shit, but community, I believe in those values. I believe that like, yeah, we work together, we could also be a community, but we need to support each other. And if you want resilience in your business, you need to look at how are you treating your people, because your people in your business are your value at the end of the day.

[00:26:16] Erica Charron: Yes. And it’s your engine. Right. And if you have a poor work culture, I really don’t think anyone gets very far. And you see that in all sectors, not just businesses. So, you know, and just thinking back on what you said about the shiny sort of like fast growth tech bro type thing, I think social media is the culprit of a lot of risky entrepreneurship today. And I don’t know what your algorithm looks like, but mine is just inundated by like these, these like influencers. You’re like, how to build a seven figure business in five days using, you know, taking the equity out of your house and buying five Airbnbs. And now I trade bitcoin futures at night.

[00:27:01] Calan Breckon: No, no, don’t do it. Don’t fall for it. I’ve gotten off all social medias, especially the ones that are owned by like oligarchs and shitty people.

So there’s one that I do spend a lot of time on. I’m not going to name it because it’s bad, but it’s not as bad as other ones. All right, we got one more question coming at you. So small businesses often lack the resources to engage in policy advocacy on social issues.

What collaborative models have you seen that effectively amplify small business voices in policy development?

[00:27:35] Erica Charron: Okay, so, I mean, businesses are not. They can participate in policy and advocacy much the same way as community based organizations do. So, you know, you can engage in policy development by Actively contacting your elected officials, joining industry associations or participating in like town hall meetings or public meetings with your city councilor. You can write to your city councilor. You can attend policy forums and local government planning meetings that are advocating for policies that positively impact the community and that also may align with your values as a business owner. They’re not mutually exclusive. You can still make money as a business and also create social impact in your community.

I also encourage businesses to partner with community based organizations that are tackling an issue you are passionate about and joining them on advocacy campaigns.

Perhaps a small business wishes to sponsor an organization and doesn’t have to be a small business, it can be medium. And even large corporations do this too, where a portion of your profits go directly to the populations the organization is working with. And I, I encourage folks to, to do that in partnership with a nonprofit community based organization rather than a foundation, simply because you will actually see where your money goes. And foundations, you don’t get to see where that goes.

So, yeah, that’s what I would suggest.

[00:29:21] Calan Breckon: Nice. Okay, well, we, we covered a lot of, covered a lot of things here. Is there any kind of last words you’d like to share before we sign off on today’s episode?

[00:29:33] Erica Charron: No, no. I, I, we have a federal election coming up. So it’s like, you know, I’m hoping for the best. My thing, my fingers are crossed. Go vote. That’s my last. Yeah, go vote.

[00:29:46] Calan Breckon: Yeah, please, please. I get it, I get it that younger generations, a lot, I feel, have given up and with, with do right. Like, I mean, I get it, I see it. But it’s the last thing we have really to, to have a voice. And watching what’s happened in the states, all those rights are being taken away one by one, slowly but surely being eroded away. And that really scares me.

[00:30:11] Calan Breckon: It makes me nervous.

[00:30:12] Erica Charron: Terrifying. Yeah.

[00:30:13] Calan Breckon: And we have the chance to, to fight back here in Canada. And there’s the right people to choose and there’s definitely the wrong people to choose. So this has been magical. Where can folks find out more about you, contact you, connect with you?

[00:30:27] Erica Charron: Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn or through, through our website, www.LCS.ca perfect.

[00:30:37] Calan Breckon: I’ll make sure to have those links in the show notes for everybody and also I’ll include your LinkedIn as well in the show notes if anybody wants to connect with you there.

[00:30:45] Erica Charron: Awesome.

[00:30:46] Calan Breckon: Thank you so much for being a guest today, Erica. This has been absolutely fantastic.

[00:30:49] Erica Charron: No, thank you.

[00:30:51] Calan Breckon: Thanks for tuning in today. Don’t forget to hit that subscribe button. And if you really enjoyed today’s episode, I would love a star rating from you. The Business Gay Podcast is written, produced and edited by me, Calan Breckon. That’s it for today. Peace, love, rainbows.