The Business Gay Podcast with Host Calan Breckon
The Business Gay
What is SEO and Why it Matters for Your Business
What is SEO and Why it Matters for Your Business

In this episode of The Business Gay Podcast, host Calan Breckon speaks with Principal Consultant at WSI Digital Marketing, Katheryne Womack, all about search engine optimization (SEO).

Katheryne is a 15-year military veteran and small business owner based in Maryland. She’s a dynamic and experienced professional with a passion for small business and a deep understanding of the US economy. Throughout her career, Katheryne held a variety of positions, including analyst, intelligence officer, intelligence instructor, full-spectrum cyber operations specialist, and strategic planner. Her extensive experience in these diverse roles gave her a unique perspective on the world of business.

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Key Takeaways for quick navigation:

  • [03:36] SEO (Search Engine Optimization) is the practice of optimizing your website to improve its visibility and ranking on Google’s search engine results pages.
  • [06:00] SEO matters because it aligns with search intent; people actively searching for your product or service are more likely to buy from you.
  • [11:00] SEO is more sustainable and affordable than paid advertising, which often attracts less qualified leads and requires ongoing investment.
  • [18:25] Results from SEO can vary but are typically noticeable within 3 to 6 months, with substantial improvements over 12 months. SEO is a long-term strategy for building domain authority.
  • [22:50] SEO is not a one-time effort; it’s a lifetime investment for your business that requires ongoing maintenance and adaptation to changes in the digital landscape.
  • [24:20] Start investing in SEO early for your business, even before you think you need it, to gain a competitive advantage.
  • [25:55] A healthy budget range for SEO services typically starts at $1,000 per month for small businesses and can go higher for larger enterprises.
  • [28:00] Focus on local SEO tactics if you have a smaller budget, including optimizing your website, writing local-focused blog posts, and using Google My Business.
  • [32:45] Podcasting can be an effective and affordable way to improve your SEO by building backlinks and engaging with your audience.
  • [36:55] Connect with SEO specialists like Katheryne on Instagram to access valuable information and services for improving your online presence.

Calan Breckon: 00:00:00    Today’s episode is sponsored by SurferSEO. Trusted by brands like Square and Intuit, SurferSEO is a tool designed to help SEO optimize your written content, like blog posts and articles on your website. Instead of guessing what Google likes to rank, this tool offers you a data-driven analysis of exactly what’s missing from your already existing content. SurferSEO is constantly checking thousands of data points, analyzing its findings, and prioritizing that information so that you have the best chance of ranking your articles on Google. SurferSEO also comes jam packed with AI technology. Their powerful Surfer AI tools allows you to streamline content creation by taking care of research, writing and optimization, saving you countless working hours each week. Once the AI is done writing the article, you get to go in and make all the edits you want to bring that extra special magic only you can do. Don’t leave your SEO strategy up to chance. Surfer will give you an SEO workflow to boost your organic traffic, increase your visibility, and improve your rank. Visit for more details, or just click the link in the show notes. Now, let’s get into today’s episode. 

Calan Breckon: 00:01:16    Welcome to The Business Gay Podcast, where we talk about all things business, marketing, and entrepreneurship. I’m your host, Calan Breckon, and on today’s episode, we have business owner and principal consultant at WSI digital marketing, Katheryne Womack. Katheryne is a 15 year military veteran and a small business owner based in Maryland. She’s a dynamic and experienced professional with a passion for small business and a deep understanding of the US economy. Throughout her career, Katheryne has held a variety of positions, including analysis, intelligence officer, intelligence instructor, full spectrum cyber operations specialist, and strategic planner. Woo. That’s just a couple. Her extensive experience in these diverse roles gave her a unique perspective on the world of business. In addition to her professional experience, Katheryne brings a few fun facts to the table as well. She speaks fluent Korean, and during her time supporting the US Navy aviation, she had the opportunity to coordinate and execute a jet flyover for a NASCAR race. Uh, that’s super cool. So I am so excited to hear Katheryne’s take on SEO and marketing because I absolutely love this topic. So without further ado, let’s jump in. Hey, Katheryne, how’s it going? Welcome to the show. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:02:31    Hello, my friend. Thank you for having me. I’m, how are you holding up? 

Calan Breckon: 00:02:35    I, I, you know what? Let’s be fair. I was super sick over the past couple of days, we just shared. Mm-hmm. Uh, my brain is very mushy and very foggy, but I am on the mend. Uh, but I’m so excited to jump into this podcast with you. So for the listeners, if I have a bit of a moment, you know why? What about you, Katheryne? How are you doing? 

Katheryne Womack: 00:02:55    I have been just chugging coffee all day today, so I’m super amped and I’m going to try not to yell. We’re just gonna, we’re gonna talk about some very exciting things. So I’m, I’m ready. I’m ready. 

Calan Breckon: 00:03:07    Oh my gosh, I am so ready for this episode as well. Like, I’m so excited I’ve been planning this episode since I’ve started planning this podcast. Like, all I want to do is educate the people on why what we’re talking about today is so freaking important. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and like, just have people understand the difference it can make inside of their business. So with that, let’s just start off easy for folks. Okay. What is SEO? And then after we’re gonna jump into like why does it matter, but what is SEO? 

Katheryne Womack: 00:03:36    Sure. So, SEO stands for search engine optimization. So everything that you use, you know, whether it’s Instagram, TikTok, Google, it’s got an algorithm, right? And you want to work with that algorithm rather than against it. So search engine optimization, and we’ll call it SEO from here on, from here on out. Um, it’s the practice of optimizing your website to improve its visibility, and ultimately it’s ranking on Google’s search engine results pages. Ultimately, that visibility is going to mean an increase in your business’s revenue. The more people that see you, the more likely they are to buy from you. How can people buy from you if they don’t even know you exist? So you have to boost your invis, your, uh, visibility. 

Calan Breckon: 00:04:17    Uh, I would, yeah. Oh, sorry. Keep going. If you got more, keep going. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:04:21    <laugh>. I could preach about it because, and that’s why you and I connected honestly, is just because people don’t recognize its importance. Um, so I was gonna say, it’s, it’s fundamental and I would say it’s absolutely mandatory for any business or organization. This is a mandatory investment for you. It future proofs your business. The overwhelming majority of online purchases or requests for information, they start with a search engine. Over 90% start with Google. So you think about it, when you’re ready to buy a thing, what do you do? You’re gonna pick up your phone, right? You’re gonna search for that thing or service, or a question you have about it on Google. That’s over 90% of you doing that. So, um, we’re just bringing people, when we’re doing SEO, we’re bringing your business to where they’re already at, when they’re the closest they’re gonna be to buying from you. 

Calan Breckon: 00:05:08    Yes. And why it matters is because of something I like, well, something called search intent. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there’s, there’s search intent is so important and people don’t quite understand this as they’re like, well, where am I gonna mark it? Why don’t I just throw spaghetti at the wall? It’s like, why would you throw spaghetti at the wall when you could just go to Google, right? And make sure that you are the first thing that pops up on Google. Because if somebody’s coming and looking up the thing you are offering, that means that they are ready to either learn more about that thing or to purchase and buy that thing. And so they’re already down that rabbit hole. You don’t need to convince them they need your random thing. Whereas if you’re looking at a Facebook ad and you’re like, oh, that’s nice, but like, they don’t, they haven’t gone looking for that thing that thing’s just kind of come across them and yes, targeting and all this matters, but at the end of the day, I would rather put myself at the top of Google for that one thing so that I’m getting all of that free search traffic. 

Calan Breckon: 00:06:08    I mean, you invested your time and energy and effort into getting there, but at the end of the day, if you can stay up there, that is going to pay exponentially over time. Is there anything extra you wanna say about why it matters? 

Katheryne Womack: 00:06:24    Yeah. Well, I wanna, I wanna talk a little bit about that, and maybe we’ll get more into it later. So just let me know. But when you are, most of my clients come to me after having already thrown spaghetti at the wall. They boost a post here, they pay for some ads there on like Facebook. I don’t know why everybody goes to Facebook. The thing about social media is the people that are seeing your ads on social media are in a totally different headspace than they are when they’re actively searching for the service you provide. So it’s like you’re interrupting their day. They don’t recognize a need. They’re like, oh, okay, maybe, but Google, they’re looking for you. They’re actively looking for you. Like, why are you putting your money over here on Facebook? Like, oh my gosh. And then they’re usually not even measuring results. So, 

Calan Breckon: 00:07:03    Yes. Yeah. And, and that brings up such a good point, is because when I go on social media just as a consumer mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I’m going on there to just brain melt. Yes. I’m not going on there to think, I’m not going on there to, I mean, maybe some people are, maybe this is just me, but I don’t go on there to buy things or purchase things. And more often than not any ads on my social media piss me the F off. Me too. ’cause I’m not asking for it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because it’s free, because social media is free and you don’t own it. We are the product. And since we are the product, we have to get all of these ads in order to pay for the platform and to pay for all of its needs and to make them all their billions of dollars. 

Calan Breckon: 00:07:40    And so when I’m that product, it pisses me off. ’cause I’m like, I just wanna see my, my friends are doing, I wanna see if my friends look cute. I want to see if my friends went out, did something fun. Yeah. Or just to read all the stupid memes, or to watch all the dumb foxing like cat videos and dog videos that come across my feed. That’s what I want when I’m on social media. Yeah. That’s not the kind of mind frame you want people to be in. If you have a specific product that you’re like, I wanna get you up and going and excited and to buy this product that I’d be like on my couch being like, no, Jan, that’s not what I wanna do right now. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:08:17    That’s the furthest thing from what I wanna do right now. I don’t want that. I don’t wanna buy your roof. I don’t wanna, I don’t want roofing. I don’t want HVAC right now. I’m trying to look at these fun videos and photos of people I know and like, like, what are you doing right now? Go away. 

Calan Breckon: 00:08:29    Uh, a hundred, 110%. So then, so then why would somebody invest in SEO for their business over simply just paying for ads? I know we just dug into that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but like, what’s that actually? Why is that so much more important? 

Katheryne Womack: 00:08:43    Yeah. There’s several advantages of SEO over simply paying for ads now. Like ads aren’t completely bad. There’s a time and a place which really requires working with a professional if that’s something that might be a fit for you. But ads are providing immediate visibility of you, right? Of your business and getting you to the top of maybe let’s say you’re doing ads on Google. You’re, it’s getting you to the top of the search engine, which is great, hypothetically. Um, they require an ongoing investment to maintain. And generally the investment is much more than you would be paying for search engine optimization. It’s also attracting less qualified potential clients because you pop up and they’re like, okay, whatever. I’ll click on it. Let, let, let’s just see real quick, but I’m not totally interested. You just interrupted their day. Sort of when you do that, we call them less qualified leads. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:09:31    The leads that you would be getting through search engine optimization are much more likely to buy from you. And when you’re paying for ads, you’re paying for those clicks. Just because they click it doesn’t mean they’ll buy. You can easily find yourself dumping thousands into the hole with nothing to show for it. And that is not what you want out of marketing. Marketing should be an investment with a return on investment. When you stop paying for those ads, by the way, you disappear off the top of the page, right? You disappear. And we know we need to be on the top of the page. That’s where the highest conversion rates are. That’s where people are more likely to buy from you if you’re at the top. But once you stop paying, you disappear. And now your competitors step in. So it doesn’t mean the advertising’s bad. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:10:12    It can be great. It just depends on your industry and what you have going on. Um, hopefully if you were paying for ads that all those clicks that you had to pay for the thousands of dollars worth of clicks paid for itself and you could profit, um, SEO, it’s just, it’s more sustainable. It’s more affordable. You’re getting higher, more qualified people that are much more willing to buy from you. They were searching you out and that’s how you showed up through SEO showed up organically. So, um, you know, yeah. That’s my little blurb on that. And it’s important too. It’s talk to a professional. Any professional worth their salt would be happy to talk to you with no obligation to, to make you help you make the right decision. 

Calan Breckon: 00:10:51    Yeah. So breaking it down in like super simple terms mm-hmm. <affirmative>, SEO basically investing in it and investing in somebody who can help you work. SEO is basically saying, Hey, I wanna rank number one, or at least on the first page of Google. That’s what you’re investing in. You’re investing in being on that first page and getting to that top ranking spot. So if you wanna be, say you want to be the number one sought after lawyer for your specific niche in, and it can get granular in your specific city, if that’s what you are or in your country, then you can work with an SEO specialist to get you to that spot. And instead of using that marketing dollars on commercials and Facebook ads and all of this stuff, you take that investment dollars and you invest them into an SEO specialist who will get you ranked there and help you stay there for years to come. Yes. ’cause the longer you’re there, the, so we’re gonna get into this later, but the longer you’re there, the better. And we’re gonna talk about that later, the long term. Um, but do you have any examples that you can share that highlights the true power of SEO and what it can do for business in this kind of an example of like, Hey, I wanna work with you. These are some awesome results. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:12:10    Yeah, so we actually have somebody who has been doing SEO for 10 years. And I, I wanted to prepare for this pull up. We have a lot of case studies at W S I, we’ve been around for about 30 years, right? So we’ve got a lot and it’s, it’s accessible to anybody. But there’s one in particular that’s been sticking out to me just a, it was just a casual conversation, but he had been doing SEO for 10 years and at this point he’s doing 1.5 million in revenue, and half of that revenue is coming from his website. ’cause that’s what SEO is doing. It’s bringing you people who need you, who are looking for you, and they’re much more willing to buy half of his revenue is coming from his website because of the SEO he’s been doing for the long term. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:12:48    He doesn’t have to run ads anymore. He doesn’t have to deal with that at, at all. His website is actually an asset now rather than a, a deadbeat just sitting there, just being a generic billboard that nobody is really looking at. ’cause they’re driving by so fast, it’s actually working for him. That’s kind of what I have on that. Um, we have a lot of other stories, but that one just stuck out to me because man, he’s, his website is knocking it out of the park for him because he never let off the gas. And SEO is something you should never stop doing. There’s a new competitor every day. There’s a new ad running every day, just corner your market and keep it through SEO it futureproof you. And he’s living proof of that. 

Calan Breckon: 00:13:26    Yes. It’s a long-term strategy. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I always tell people that doing SEO is a long-term strategy that will pay dividends over time. I always ha I, I have this mentality, especially with this podcast, that I would rather build in the sSEO and I haven’t done an episode on this, but I will do an episode on affiliate marketing, um, with affiliate links. I’d rather build that over time slowly and get micro little transactions over time that build over getting one lump sum payment coming in. Because over time that lump sum payment is going to slowly, you know, diminish in value. Whereas over time, if I build my SEO and build the website and build everything over time, it’s going to continue to grow. And that my friends is what is called an asset. And if you utilize SEO properly and you help build your website, you are building an asset. 

Calan Breckon: 00:14:19    And I think some people don’t quite understand and grasp this. They go, well, if I just put my website together and I just put it online, can’t people just find me? And it’s like, no. And there’s a reason why people can’t just find you online. If you just put up a website and maybe you do like a blog post or something like that, it’s because Google doesn’t know you and Google doesn’t trust you. Yes. <laugh>, Google doesn’t know you. Google doesn’t trust you. It’s like, okay, well, hey, just to throwback to Jan, really, Hey Jan, this is super cool. You make fermented yogurt, um, and you made this one blog post and you wanna sell your fermented yogurt to people around town in let’s pick Toronto. That’s great and all, but if you aren’t the determined number one source of that information, Google’s not gonna say, Hey, go to Jan. 

Calan Breckon: 00:15:09    She’s the best at it. They’re gonna go, I don’t know, Jan’s pretty shifty. All she got is one website. She has no links going back to her website. And she doesn’t really talk about her information that much, but there’s Jan sitting there going, why is nobody coming to my website? Why is nobody ordering from me? Why does nobody know about me? I gotta throw up all these random ads, which yes, it could help, but if you invested in the SEO, your business will be here 10, 15, 20 years from now because you will continuously grow that over time. This is that long-term strategy that SEO has for people. And it just tickles me. Fricking ping 

Katheryne Womack: 00:15:47    <laugh> <laugh>. Well, I’m glad you brought that up about, you know, I wanted to tell this story. This is how I kind of start to teach people the importance of it. I I lean in with a, do you realize Google’s role in your business? Do you realize who Google is? Okay. And I have them think about that role. Google, you can, it’s wave tops. Think about Google, like your door guy to your business, which is your website. Okay? You have to keep your door guy happy for him to let people in and come check you out and maybe make a purchase. And there are ways to do that through SEO to keep your door guy happy. If you’re not pleasing him, nobody is coming in. And that’s where we get to the on page, off page technical content related, like just back and forth stuff to keep your door guy happy, but no matter who you are, no matter what your industry, you need a website and you need to keep your door guy happy with SEO so people can come in and see you and buy from you. And that’s where SEO comes into play. Yeah. He, he’s got a no, like, and trust you. He’s got a no, like, and trust you. And that’s what SEO does. And he will gladly let people come into your business. When you build that relationship with Google and it’s algorithm, it’s machine learning. Yes. 

Calan Breckon: 00:16:58    Yes. <laugh>. So, so if somebody wants to do, so, how long does it usually take for someone to start seeing results from their SEO strategy? So say, they say, okay, I’ve been listening, I get it. I know I need to do this for my business. This makes more sense to me. Yes. How long does it usually take from a strategy for that to actually start working and people to start seeing results?  

Katheryne Womack: 00:17:19    Yeah, that’s a, that’s a really common question. Another question I get is, how long will it take for me to get to the first page of Google? They recognize they need to be there. If I had a dollar for any time somebody asked me that, I would be so rich right now. But, um, I’m gonna tell you, tell you the truth about it, the timeframe for SEO results can vary depending on various factors such as the competitive competitiveness of your industry, the quality of your website, because it’s ongoing. So you’re slowly gaining that authority and that trust with Google and it, and the effectiveness of the strategy. How, how hard are you going into this? Right? Generally, businesses can start regardless of industry. They can start seeing noticeable improvements within three to six months. But honestly, if you’re able to handle it in this quick turn immediate gratification world, you wanna give it 12 months, please give it 12 months, and you’re gonna see year over year noticeable improvements. But you can see, you can see improvements anywhere three to six, just, you know, just be patient because these are tried and true methods that are measurable, that are sustainable and incredibly important when you are in a competitive market. Yes. You want to eventually be the business that shows up when people say, uh, plumber near me, uh, website help near me, like something coffee shop. Right? You want to be that person. So give it, give it 12 months if you can please. 

Calan Breckon: 00:18:40    Yes. And, and so I wanna just track back to this one thing, um, domain authority mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because what this is doing, what this longevity, what this long period does is it helps you and your website build the domain authority, which is you going back to that doorman of like Google’s the doorman. And Google is telling everybody, okay, the domain authority is high enough for me to let you in the door. And that’s what you want your website to be. You want your domain authority to be higher. So the higher your domain authority, the more likely it is that Google’s gonna recommend you first. Yes. Now, that’s not the only, there’s many other factors that go into this, but that is one of the key factors. And one of the ways to get there is, um, things like getting links back to your website. I almost talked about this earlier, but one of the important parts of building a domain authority and building this into your longevity plan is by getting links back to your website. 

Calan Breckon: 00:19:37    And that’s a very important aspect because that is saying, it’s almost like, you know how if you go, um, and like a random person tells you to do something and you’re like, okay, sure. Maybe, I don’t know. But then you have like your friend of a friend tells you and it’s like, oh, my friend of a friend, you’re like, okay, I trust that like a lot more. Yes. New facts are like a friend of a friend. It’s like everybody’s telling Google, like, Hey, you should really like, pay attention to this website. Like, they’re cool, they’re totally chill. Like they’re allowed to come to the party. That’s what those are doing for you. And the more that that happens, your domain authority will grow. But also things like content creation and all that stuff. So continuing on this, oh, and also I wanted to say it’s not just a one-time thing. 

Calan Breckon: 00:20:18    Mm-hmm. <affirmative> talking about investing into SEO, it is a long-term strategy. It’s, you know, and at minimum, minimum six months, like minimum Yes. But like six to 12 months. But even then it’s not, it’s not like it’s done. It’s not like you just, oh, I did SEO Right. I did it. It’s a investment for the rest of your business. Yes. For like, for the, for here until ever. And it sounds daunting, but everything is constantly changing online. The digital world is constantly changing. Things in Google are constantly changing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the invention of AI that just happened right now, like not right now, but like that just happened, is drastically going to change the surface of what Google is looking for and what online is looking for. Because there’s gonna be a rush. There already has been a rush of all these AI articles going on there. 

Calan Breckon: 00:21:08    Google now wants to implement things where it’s like, okay, well now we really wanna know if a person’s actually doing these kinds of things, which is why I do podcasting for SEO, because you can’t fake two people talking. I mean, you can’t, but like Right. It, it creates a more organic, natural, um, like natural language to the, the conversation. Um, so yeah. So all of these things play into your long-term strategy for SEO. Yes. Um, and that over time, like if you get it to a good place, you still need to have somebody in your pocket or doing SEO that he, it’s an upkeep. Thing’s you need to upkeep, it’s because Google will change things and maybe your website will go down for a little while mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but it’ll come back up. But like you said, you just need to be patient. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:21:55    You need to be patient. And it’s, it’s a lifetime. It’s a lifetime investment. The lifetime of your business. This is something you never stop doing. There’s a new competitor every day. There’s just, it’s something that is ongoing and honestly, it’s gonna help you out. You’ve got another, it’s, although it is an investment in your business, it’s a legitimate business expense, which can help you out at the end of the year when you’re filing your taxes, you’ve got that ongoing business expense, which is truly an investment in your revenue. Um, it helps you out a little bit. Yeah, it really does. Yeah, 

Calan Breckon: 00:22:24    Exactly. Business writeoffs, you know, it’s, it’s, 

Katheryne Womack: 00:22:26    It’s wild to me though, that people will start businesses and not even factor for a marketing budget or do any of the footwork. It, it’s wild to me how most businesses go outta businesses, right. Go out of business, but then like the first five years, and they certainly don’t make it to 10. And I was reading an article on Forbes and it was asking people who had gone outta business, why, why did they go outta business? And these people self-reported it and said there was no market need. And that’s all they provided on Forbes. And I wholeheartedly disagree with that. We know being online, we know that there is a market for everything. When we’re doing keyword research, um, there is always a market for everything. What there isn’t though, is businesses doing appropriate marketing to get in front of the right people. There’s absolutely a market for your business. And SEO gets you to that market so that you can stay in business. 

Calan Breckon: 00:23:14    Yes, exactly. So would you say that this is why it’s super important for a business to get invested into SEO early and not put it off later? 

Katheryne Womack: 00:23:23    Yes, I would. Um, not only do I say it’s mandatory, it’s something you want to invest in before you even need it. Usually that first year you, you’re doing okay, you know, you’ve got the funds, you know, it’s fine. You think it’s gonna go better for you. But year over year, if you’re not investing in your marketing, it’s going to get a little harder to make ends meet. Especially if you are relying on word of mouth referrals, which are notoriously unreliable. You don’t know if you’re gonna get three referrals this month. You don’t know if you’re gonna get one this month. You don’t know if you’re gonna be able to pay that overhead cost. So start early, start before you need it. I don’t care how good business is going for you right now. You don’t know what next year looks like. You don’t know if there’s gonna be another, uh, worldwide health issue that’s gonna shut things down. Start early. 

Calan Breckon: 00:24:06    Yes. Especially because all those people who didn’t have their websites found out real fast that, oh, had I been number one on the internet, their business wouldn’t have struggled maybe as much as it did. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:24:16    That’s right. Some businesses thrived, some have closed their doors forever. And if you started early, you would’ve had a competitive advantage over others in your industry who had delayed or overlooked SEO. And honestly, that’s a lot of competitors, believe it or not. You, you have a lot to gain when you start SEO. Yes. You really do. 

Calan Breckon: 00:24:34    Yes. So I know that, you know, cost can range because it’s like, yes, you could contracts from just a month or a couple months up to a year or years. Um, but what is like a healthy budget range to expect for working with an SEO specialist or a company? 

Katheryne Womack: 00:24:50    Yeah. So the cost of working with an SEO specialist or company will vary based on a lot of factors like scope of work of the project and the level of expertise required or desired. A healthy budget range typically starts from a thousand dollars a month. For small businesses, it can go up to several thousand dollars for larger enterprises. It’s important though. It’s important to not let the sticker shock fool you. It’s important to find an SEO partner who aligns with your budget and goals and can guide you into what industry norms are for you, and to make the numbers make sense. So you get a solid return on your investment. A lot of people will be like, oh, $2,000 a month on SEO, that’s a bit much for me. And I’m like, well, what’s the average value of a client for you? 

Katheryne Womack: 00:25:33    $5,000 lifetime value. How about that? Do they bring you referrals as well? $15,000? Well then that 15,000, just that one client, that lifetime value is probably gonna pay for close to a year of SEO for you. Like really think about it in perspective of the kind of revenue you bring in. And any SEO X expert like yourself, like myself, we can help you make the numbers. Make sense? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, so very long-winded to say it, it ranges varied on scope. What do you think about that? How do you feel about that price range? 

Calan Breckon: 00:26:06    Yeah. Oh yeah. That’s, uh, yeah, that’s about average. What I would say. I mean, it, it’s just, it’s, it’s one of these things where it’s like, it varies so much. It does, depending on like what, because when you talk SEO, it’s not just one thing, it’s multiple things. It’s like if you’re asked to write an article, like a single article, like $350 for an SEO article specific, right? That’s, you know, that’s about, I’d say lower ish on the end, on the spectrum, but it’s within the reasonable spectrum. But that’s just one SEO article. Yes. And if you think that that one article is gonna change your, your life, it very much is not it. No, it’s a good start. But you’re gonna need hundreds of those articles. So, I mean, a thousand to 7,000, are they writing articles or are they Yes. What is part of that? You know? So the range can be wide. It could even be wider. It depends on how big your budget is, how fast you wanna grow. But like for healthy, starting out, that is a very good space. And where should folks start if and focus if they have a really small budget mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they know they want to get in here, but like where should they focus if they want to start with a smaller budget? 

Katheryne Womack: 00:27:20    Yeah. For those starting with smaller budgets, there are effective ways to invest in SEO, um, especially locally. What you wanna do when you’re starting out, you’ve got a smaller budget. You want to hyper target your local market and then grow from there. Right? Grow from there. Um, focus on fundamental elements like a clear and concise website. Treat your website like a billboard. People are gonna hop on and glance at it. Have a single and clear call to action, like a Quest, a free quote, write your own blog. If you’ve got the time and you’ve got a smaller budget, write your own blog with subjects that pertain to any patterns that you are seeing with your customers. Maybe some common questions they have common issues they come to you with. And include local keywords like in your area, like I’m in Verna Park. Maybe include that in a blog post. Something like that. Because every blog post you write is teaching Google who you are and who you are appropriate to show to when they’re searching for the very service or product you provide. Make sure you leverage free tools like Google My Business, get your business listed on there because everybody’s on their phone and now we’ve got a nice little map that will show you popping up. It’s just a great way to do local search engine optimization for free. 

Calan Breckon: 00:28:31    Yes. It’s amazing. Keep, I think I up like, I think I’m like number two for business business coaching in Toronto. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:28:39    Awesome. That Toronto is not a small place either, so that’s excellent. Yeah. And you keep it up to date, right? Like you’re, you’re posting on there. Yeah. And people will do that too. They’ll, they’ll set it and forget it. You can’t treat it like social media, keep it updated, add pictures, add updates, calls to action. And you can do that with the Google business profile. It’s really easy to do. Highly recommend you use a desktop to, to mess around on there and get familiar with what’s going on. 

Calan Breckon: 00:29:01    Yeah. No, don’t use your phone. It’s a bad interface. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:29:04    Yes. And here’s, here’s an old school recommendation, because really you should be doing a multitude of tactic tactics for marketing yourself, especially when it comes to targeting locally, right? As a new smaller business, put yourself out there, join a chamber of commerce, join a networking group, go to a convention, introduce yourself. You never know who’s gonna be sitting next to you in that Starbucks line. Or maybe at that, you know, wherever you’re going, just keep your mouth, don’t be quiet. Talk about who you are, what you do. That’s a great way to really help essentially analog local SEO, right? <laugh>. 

Calan Breckon: 00:29:40    Yes. Yes. I loved all of those points. Um, and so I wanna break down a lot of this for people. If they are, oh, pardon me. Um, if they are, you know, even lower than that and they’re like, I can’t afford to do any SEO Yeah. Those things that you just mentioned are great and fantastic and I want to add a couple points to that. Yeah. Is ask those people to, you know, send a link back to your website if like, yes. Once you build that relationship, once you get to there and get to that place, ask them to link back to your website. There you go. You’re building links back to your website. You’re getting your friends of your friends saying, Hey, go look over here. You can trust this website. Yes. And also building SEOs, writing blog posts. Yes. And I wanted to break this down for people so that they understand why what happens when you write a blog post is that you put out all this textual information for Google. 

Calan Breckon: 00:30:36    ’cause Google’s a machine and it crawls through all of that data and it pulls out keywords and information from it going mm-hmm. <affirmative>, oh, they keep talking about this. This must be what this website is about. Yes. That is kind of breaking down SEO to the very bare bones basics of understanding of like, this is how Google understands you and your website. I know you’re a human, you get it, you understand what you are. But online, the, the internet does not understand who you are. Yes. And so the more blog posts and the more textual information you put out there, the more Google can crawl it and go, oh, I understand. They keep talking about business, they keep talking about entrepreneurship, they keep talking about podcasting. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, this is what this website is about. And so that, that is what SEO does and it helps drive. 

Calan Breckon: 00:31:26    So if you can’t afford to go out there and pay somebody to do SEO and this that and the other, there are ways of course to like make sure you structure it properly because there is a structure that Google likes to see. Like it needs to make sure you have the proper headings and, and keywords and these kinds of things. But if you can’t get that granular and you don’t want to, even just writing basic blog posts to a certain degree about the topic you love or is your niche will help you get there enough that maybe you can eventually hire somebody. And one of the fun things that I want to say is that if you don’t like blog posting and writing and sitting and doing all that, I do podcasting for SEO. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:32:09    Yes. I meant to bring that up. 

Calan Breckon: 00:32:10    Oh yay. What do you have to say about it? I’ll go, I’ll go after you. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:32:13    Well think about this. You know, I was doing some locally stuff too. You know, I’m telling you guys to go out there and not keep your mouth shut. Talk to people. Cal and I met at a convention I went to essentially, you know, a convention and we were talking and we both bonded over SEO and how people don’t understand its importance. And thanks to just having that conversation, he invited me onto this podcast, which is going to help my SEO efforts as well as his right. The, the subject of the podcast is gonna be on his website. It’s gonna help. But he’s helping me with my SEO just by me being on a podcast. And he was kind enough to invite me here. I’m not paying for this. It’s a great way to boost your SEO Reach out to people that you know and you like, you listen to them. If you, what you do pertains to their area of expertise, be bold. Ask them and maybe, you know, nurture that relationship. Maybe they’ll invite you if you don’t feel that brave to ask. So SEO and podcasting, it’s a great, a great matching up, A very affordable way, as in it’s not gonna break the bank. 

Calan Breckon: 00:33:10    Exactly. Yeah. And it’s so much more fun ’cause you get to have a conversation with somebody instead of like sitting and writing and being by yourself, which I mean some people love, I do love that. Right. But I like to get to talk to people as entrepreneurs. It can be very lonesome sometimes. And so creating a podcast, talking, I get to help your SEO ’cause there’s gonna be links going back to your website. Yes. And people are going to hear you and go find out more about what you do. But it’s also helping my SEO because I post this on my website and so it’s almost like it’s a blog article on there. And then I have tips and ideas and tricks and things that actually help do a lot more for SEO. Um, but that is things that I teach. So <laugh>, I’m gonna do a whole episode on that another day. Awesome. Awesome. But yeah, plug, uh, blah, blah, blah. My brain, um, podcasting for SEO is a fantastic idea. So if that lights you up, you can also, um, find out more information about that on my website. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But is there any more information, anything we haven’t talked upon or touched upon yet that you wanna make sure you get in here before we finish things up today? 

Katheryne Womack: 00:34:15    I think we did a great job, um, at not just giving wave tops, but getting a little bit more down into it. ’cause you could get lost in the sauce, but I, I think we really hit a lot of the common questions and concerns my clients and potential clients come to me with when it comes to SEO I think, I think we did a great job. High five to ourselves. <laugh>. 

Calan Breckon: 00:34:33    Yay. Internet high five. Yay. Um, awesome. Well, where can people go to find out more information about you and your services and what you offer? 

Katheryne Womack: 00:34:42    Yeah, I would actually, it’s gonna be an unusual request, but you guys will help me out this way. Find me on Instagram, please find me on Instagram @WSIworld_dmv like the DMV area ’cause I’m in dc, Maryland, Virginia. So @wsiworld_dmv, when you go there to my Instagram, you will have the link to my website. You will have the link to everything you would ever need. And my dms are open and I think that’s the easiest way to do it. Hop on your phone right now and find me on Instagram. 

Calan Breckon: 00:35:12    Perfect. And also just because I’m that cool SEO kid, I will also make sure that your proper website and everything is also linked in the show notes. Perfect. So that if people wanna go straight there, they’ll have that. Um, yeah. But make sure you go follow Katheryne on Instagram and check out all of her stuff. And if you have any questions, you can either throw me, oh my God, I got a frog in my throat. You can either, uh, message me or message Katheryne. I can connect you to her. Uh, thank you so much for being on today’s show. I’ve been so excited about recording this episode because SEO just lights me up. I’m the biggest nerd and I get so much joy from being able to just nerd out with somebody else who gets it. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:35:53    I do too. And I, I, you’re probably a fan of the underdog as well because SEO lev levels the playing field for local businesses compared to these big names. It’s gonna level the playing field. You’re gonna get a heck of a return when you do SEO. So it’s, it’s nice to talk to somebody who loves it just as much as I do. 

Calan Breckon: 00:36:08    Yes. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. Katheryne, have the best day ever. 

Katheryne Womack: 00:36:13    Thank you for having me. We’ll talk again. 

Calan Breckon: 00:36:15    Wow, what a powerhouse episode I had today. I’m so glad I finally could get this out to all of you because SEO is so important in the world of business. I love when I get to chat with Katheryne about it because she’s just so knowledgeable about why it’s so important for businesses to invest in SEO and the crucial role that it plays in marketing and business online. I wanna thank you all for tuning in today. You are magical. Please don’t forget to hit that subscribe button. And if you really enjoyed today’s episode, I would love a star rating from you sends all the good SEO juice out into the world telling people that this is an awesome podcast to listen to. The Business Gay Podcast is written, produced, and edited by me, Calan Breckon. And if you are looking to start your own podcast or maybe a company podcast, gimme a shout, I also clearly, obviously know a lot about SEO. That’s it for today. Peace, love, rainbow.

Calan Breckon
Calan Breckon

Calan Breckon is an SEO Specialist and host of "The Business Gay" podcast. He has worked with companies such as Cohere and Canada Life and has been a guest on the "Online Marketing Made Easy" podcast with Amy Porterfield as well as featured in publications like Authority Magazine and CourseMethod.

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