Working with Romantic Partners

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Welcome to The Business Gay podcast where. We talk about all things business, marketing and entrepreneurship. I’m your host, Calan Breckon, and on today’s episode, I have co-founders of Level Studio, Vinh Le and Luca Campacci. Level studio specializes in creating unique, functional residential interior design projects with an exciting, enjoyable and collaborative design process. Inspired by their client’s stories they continuously innovate and redefine the possibilities of interior design, shaping environments that inspire, captivate and endure. They authentically build and maintain trust throughout their insightful design and construction process with constant communication to creatively design your space in a memorable and enjoyable way. Vinh and Luca aren’t just partners in business, they’re also partners in life as well. Having been together since university, they began level studio out of their parent’s basements and have grown it into the recognized brand it is today. I’m excited to talk entrepreneurship and working with your partner on today’s episode, so let’s jump in.

Welcome to the podcast. Vinh and Luca. I’m so excited to have you. How are you guys doing?

[00:01:52] Luca Campacci: How’s it going? Thanks so much for having us.

[00:01:55] Vinh Le: Yes.

[00:01:55] Calan Breckon: Woohoo. Yeah. I’m really excited to jump into this because I’ve never had a duo like you before yet on the podcast. Never had like a couple that both worked together and lived together and did business together. It’s awesome.

[00:02:10] Luca Campacci: And we haven’t ripped out each other’s heads yet. Right?

[00:02:12] Calan Breckon: And it’s a lot of together. You’ve been together for quite a long time. So in saying that, how long have you been operating level studios?

[00:02:20] Luca Campacci: So we’re actually just about to hit our seven years in May as a company.

[00:02:24] Calan Breckon: Congratulations. That’s a pretty long time. How long have you guys been together? Like as a relationship?

[00:02:31] Vinh Le: We’ve been together. We just passed our ten years now, Ashley, so. Yeah, ten years.

[00:02:36] Luca Campacci: Yeah. But we’ve known each other for 14.

[00:02:39] Calan Breckon: Oh, my goodness. That’s a really long time. Okay.

[00:02:42] Vinh Le: Times up in gay years.

[00:02:44] Luca Campacci: It’s like dog years, so, you multiply it by seven.

[00:02:47] Calan Breckon: I was just going to say that’s like a hundred years. So you’ve been in a relationship for that whole time that you’ve been in business together. So what are some lessons that you learned early on about working with a romantic partner? And let’s start off with Vinh first.

[00:03:05] Vinh Le: Yeah, I think one of the first lessons we learned was actually, well, of course, Luca  and I, we love interior design. And when we jump into our business, we both want to do interior design with all the elements know, creative directing, to brainstorming, to designing concepts to materials. And throughout the whole process, we felt like we were stepping on each other’s toes most of the time, and we just couldn’t really juggle the project efficiently. So what we learned was we had to create different roles for each other and then have us work our parts into the project to make it successfully executed.

[00:03:52] Calan Breckon: Nice. Yeah, that’s definitely important. And, Luca, what do you have to add to that?

[00:03:56] Luca Campacci: Yeah. So when we were first starting out, we kind know we’re stepping on each other’s toes, as been said, where it’s know, I want to design, I want to do this.

So the way that we kind of pitch it now, even to new clients, is imagine like a Venn diagram. So if you have two circles that overlap, in the center is where we meet with interior design, where me and Vinh both work on projects together. But then on one side of the circle, I would handle certain aspects of the company, like all the business stuff, the legal, the proposals, the meetings with the clients, like all the analytical stuff, all the numbers, the accounting. And then Vinh handles a lot of the creativity side. So he’s the creative director. So he deals with the website, the SEO, any of the graphic standards. He does our photography all in house. He even does all of our implementation, spearheading that and project managing that. So we found a way to balance it over the first couple of years, but it was definitely butting heads initially, but now we figured it out.

[00:04:56] Calan Breckon: Yeah. You definitely have to have those different sides of who does what and those defined roles in order for things to operate smoothly.

[00:05:04] Luca Campacci: Absolutely. And I think what’s really important, too, for couples, or even just friends or family members, if they’re working together, is you can’t be in a partnership in business with someone who’s a direct copy of yourself, because you should be able to have different roles just so that you can have more versatility in who the principles are of that firm or that business or whatever it is.

[00:05:27] Calan Breckon: I fully agree. And I also believe that having those clear, definitive roles makes it a lot easier. Bernie brand has a quote. Clear is kind, unclear, is unkind. So the more clear you can be with everything that you do, the more kind you’re being to each other, because then, you know this role definitively falls under you. This is something you’re taking care of, so you know what’s going on. If somebody’s dropped the ball somewhere, it’s not a blaming game, but we know whose responsibility that is. So we can’t then point at each other and be like, I thought it was you, or, I thought it was you.

[00:06:00] Vinh Le: Exactly.

[00:06:01] Luca Campacci: Accountability is key.

[00:06:03] Calan Breckon: Definitely. So how many years did it kind of take for you to find that rhythm and figure out who had what strengths?

[00:06:12] Luca Campacci: Maybe like, the first two years. Fully first two years?

[00:06:15] Vinh Le: Yeah. I would say that because when projects were coming in and we were completing it, we were able to see the start and finish of how we worked. So the second time was like, oh, let’s try to tweak this to make this work better. And then the second time, we’re like, that’s the magic. It felt a lot better. Let’s continue on with dividing our roads and really honing into our specialty powers and carry it out like that.

[00:06:43] Luca Campacci: Yeah, it’s like what our business coach said. It’s always testing and measuring. So even with any marketing strategy or anything like that, you always want to have benchmarks or something that you can test and measure. Has it been successful and in what capacity? Just kind of things like that.

[00:07:00] Calan Breckon: Yeah, it’s very important now. When you guys were starting out, you were in a relationship. You were both going to school, I believe, for the same thing that you’re doing now. And that’s how you guys came together, how you met, when you decided to go into business together and take the relationship to a business relationship, did the waters get muddied and was there nervous periods for you where you’re like, I don’t know if this was the best idea.

[00:07:30] Luca Campacci: Do you want me to answer that or do you want to go first?

You can answer.

[00:07:33] Vinh Le: No, you go first.

[00:07:34] Calan Breckon: Okay. I don’t want to cause any fight.

[00:07:37] Luca Campacci: No, truthfully. So we actually met at a bowling alley, which is where we were working as bartenders first. So this goes back 14 years. So we already knew each other’s work ethic because we were working together at the bowling alley. And then we eventually went to school together, studying the same program, and we were able to take a couple of classes where we were in group projects together. So we were lucky that we were able to already test the waters of what that work ethic was, what our strengths were, how our communication methods were. And then when we started dating, we were both working at different firms first, just so that we can get experience in the field. But one of the things that we were always talking about was just this idea that we think we had, what it took to start a business.

And at the time, when we started the company, we were pretty young. So I was 25, Vinh was 24. And I think for us, the opportunity outweighed the fear, and I think we were more just excited at what we could build and what we can grow together rather than the fear of, I guess, just stepping over each other’s toes or anything like that. And I think that’s what kind of just allowed us to want to put our best effort. Plus, if we failed, we were young at the time, so the ability to bounce back from that was a lot easier than starting a company at 40 years old or something.

[00:09:08] Vinh Le: Yeah. And to add to that, I think when Luca mentioned about having group projects together or having class together, we actually teamed up to one of our projects presented to our professor and the class, and our professor was like, there’s something with you guys. You have a really good dynamic. And sure enough, he didn’t know we were dating.

[00:09:30] Luca Campacci: Maybe he did not sure, probably did.

[00:09:32] Vinh Le: But it just solidified that for a professor to see that we could become a next dynamic duo designer in Toronto, it really gave us a lot of sense of hope that us going into business is the right thing. So we never felt. Well, I never felt if there was maybe turbulence or anything like that, but there were conversations, like, when we’re describing the Venn diagram, figuring that out together, that was a little rocky because we both wanted to design. We still do. It’s just now figuring out the roles of how to do it in a more efficient way after actually just working together and building this vision of level studio and having come to be, it just feels like our baby. So we feel like we’re two parents with this business, and everything that we do just goes back to this business.

[00:10:32] Calan Breckon: Yeah.

And now that you’ve been together for so long and you’ve figured out that Venn diagram of each person’s area of genius that works, what would you say is maybe one or two more other key factors that has contributed to your continued success after you figured that out? And let’s start with Luca. And then, Vin, we can get you after.

[00:10:53] Luca Campacci: I think, with that, especially being in a partnership where we’re also in a relationship, I think it’s just always just being proud of who your partner is and who they’ve become, because I think, too, being in a relationship for so long, some people tend to stay in the. They stay in love with the person that they originally were in a relationship with, and then over time, that person tends to grow and evolve and change, just as we all, you know me, I’m more in love with Vinh now than when we first met because of how much he’s grown as a designer, as a person, as an entrepreneur, and every day, just building this company together and every obstacle we’ve overcome and every new challenge that we’re facing and how we address it together as a team, it’s such a humbling experience, and it’s just something that really just makes me happy thinking about that and something that it’s a privilege to experience with the person you love.

[00:11:56] Calan Breckon: That, Vin, what about you?

[00:12:00] Vinh Le: I would kind of jump on the same line with that, but I would take it in a different direction. But it’s just obviously being together, that’s a relationship thing. But seeing Luca as a business partner and seeing him overcome and accepting and being open to learning new things and having him learn that and put that into his toolbox for him to become a better CEO or partner or a designer, it just makes me feel like we’re in this together.

So, again, Venn diagram. But also reaching out and picking different skills that would help us work as a team, rather as an individual.

And I think us moving forward with levels, too, it just shows how adaptive and I guess, forward thinking we are with our projects, but also with ourselves.

[00:12:57] Calan Breckon: Nice. Now, we’ve been talking about all this great love. Ew. It’s amazing. I’m sure that’s not always sunshine, rainbows, and lollipops, as you’re navigating this with a partner, any partnership, business partnership, is one thing, but a romantic partnership, how do you navigate those maybe rough spots when things come up? Do you have any kind of set rules that you’ve laid out, like clear communications, that when something happens, this is how we’re going to address this so that it doesn’t bleed over into these other parts of our lives?

[00:13:31] Luca Campacci: Yeah. Do you want to start? I think the biggest thing, of course, is communication. So there’ll be times where, whether we’re on site and we’re installing something, and it’s been a really long day, and we’re just kind of fed up and we’re done. I think it’s just understanding what the other person’s social cues are that maybe they don’t want to talk right now, or maybe they’re just feeling some kind of way. So that would be a good opportunity to kind of just take a breath or maybe go into another room or whatever it is.

But then even just dealing with the day to day, like you said, nothing’s perfect. No, day is. Sometimes we might have days where we might butt heads or whatever it is, but I think it’s important to just also be respectful of each other and not take certain things too personally as well, because they may just be dealing with something that’s not going well on that particular day, or it could be something that’s happening personally that’s not related to work, that’s affecting how their day is today. So I think just leading with empathy and just really being able to put yourself in your partner or even any team member, it doesn’t have to be your partner, but any employee, just to be able to put yourself in their shoes and try, know, understand how they could be feeling, I think that that is an important aspect of any entrepreneur.

[00:14:48] Calan Breckon: And, Vin, what do you got to throw in there?

[00:14:51] Vinh Le: Just, again, communication is key, but in a different, like, for Luca  and I, I had a little bit more challenge to communicate how I feel at that exact moment. I didn’t really fine tune that connection until, like, a few years ago, where I was really doing more self awareness checks and self reflection and seeing why I cannot communicate how I feel. But now that I was able to link what I’m feeling and how I’m feeling and just express it, it allows Luca to really, he’s. This is his mood right now. Okay, maybe I should back off and give him space, because that’s how I am. I need space. When I get a little amped up or angry or anything like that, just for me to really understand what am I really feeling, instead of poking the bear and saying, what’s wrong with you?

What’s going on? I don’t know what’s going on. I haven’t registered what I’m feeling.

Allowing or having Luca give me that space for me to really understand what I’m feeling allows me to communicate my feelings better. So for him to say, you know what? I’ll step away for 1015 minutes, maybe an hour, whatever. We’ll get lunch and then come back. Maybe we should talk about it. Yeah, sure. So now I’ve become a lot more communicative and really just let’s just go. So things are in our communication with work and personal life. It just becomes so much better by just acknowledging that progress.

[00:16:33] Luca Campacci: If I could add one more thing to that. I think it’s important just to note not only in business, but also just in personal relationships, regardless if it’s romantic or with a friend, you can expect somebody to be a mind reader. So I think if you are feeling a certain kind of way, it might be difficult to articulate those ideas at first because you may not be even understanding what it is that you’re feeling, but even just vocalize them. Like, hey, I’m not feeling too well right now, or I don’t like how you said that or that tone, but I want to take a breath. I want to take a breath and kind of like, we’ll get back to this, but right now I just need that moment to have for myself. I think that’s really important just to vocalize that. Because even if you’ve been together with somebody for 1015 years, you still can’t go under the assumption that you can read their minds or know what exactly they’re feeling at that moment in time.

[00:17:23] Calan Breckon: I think what you guys are touching on is really important.

Getting to know yourself in order to better get to know other people is really important in just everyday life. I think things like personal development, therapy, all of these things are really important for ourselves so that we can learn about these things and go, okay, you know what? There’s the fight. Flight freeze. And it sounds like, vin, you’re a flight. You’re like, I just need some space. I need to walk away and take a moment. For me, I’m the exact same. I’m like, I want to take this information and go process it and think about it for a little bit and then organize my thoughts and then come back to be able to best articulate those thoughts to you. But somebody who’s a fighter might not necessarily recognize that or understand that. They’re like, but this isn’t how I do it. And it’s really important to recognize different people process things differently. Was there anyone or anything you did that helped you guys get to that place? Like, was there any therapy? Was there personal development? You mentioned you have a business coach. Were these factors that helped you kind of understand these dynamics?

[00:18:28] Vinh Le: No, actually this one hits home because we learned this during an install.

There was a lot of emotions of us, really. So long story short, we had to.

[00:18:41] Luca Campacci: Deliver a 1500 pounds of flooring, of flooring in a cube van, in a cube van.

[00:18:47] Vinh Le: Yes. We do deliveries too, for when we need to get the projects on time and going and moving. So we had to pick up 1500 pound of flooring. And we had a lot of conversation about the business, about us, all that stuff where we were at each other’s boiling point where I didn’t know exactly how I felt, but I needed to.

Sorry.

[00:19:16] Luca Campacci: Thanks. Sorry.

That’s okay.

[00:19:19] Calan Breckon: Delivery.

[00:19:20] Vinh Le: Sorry, that wasn’t delivery. I guess she didn’t get the cue, but our emotions were really high until we were just having a conversation of something very raw.

And I was kind of not speeding, but going fast. And then we hit a speed bump.

[00:19:39] Calan Breckon: SEO.

[00:19:40] Vinh Le: I had to break really hard, and the 1500 pound flooring literally came off of the skid and literally dominoes all the way to the back of the trunk door. And we were heading towards the highway, and we have no idea how this door will handle. We got to turn, go to a residential street and really figure this out. So we did. We got out and we went to the back and start pulling all the flooring one by one. We’re like, no, this is too heavy for us. We need to think with our thinking caps on. SEO, like, aha, let’s work together. And we started to cut the saran wrap that’s holding everything in place, take each flooring off the skid, and then place it back into a more leveled form. And then when we finished that, we got back in the seas. Like, holy crap, that’s funny. Because it felt like it had to happen for us to rethink and work as a team to solve an issue. And that kind of allowed us to reset our thought and be like, okay, this is how I’m feeling. And we just set it all out. We just let each other understand how we felt after that, because that instance or that event allowed us to remember we work as a team, not as individuals. And by team, we have to communicate as a team. And that’s where we were like, okay, communication doors is wide open.

[00:21:15] Luca Campacci: And that moment also let us take a moment and take a breath while we were figuring out the flooring. So it was like a time out where we were both just focusing on this task as a team, how do we solve this problem? And then the fact that we overcame it just made us realize together we can kind of overcome anything like that, right? So again, as long as you’re communicating, being respectful, being open, and being receptive, and then now we laugh about it. So even after we fix the thing, we laughed about it, too. So it’s one of those cute moments, but it’s also stupid at the same time.

[00:21:51] Calan Breckon: Yeah. One of those moments where you’re like, oh, we need to slow down in order to speed up.

[00:21:57] Vinh Le: Exactly. Yeah.

Literally, no pun intended with that speed bump, but.

[00:22:03] Calan Breckon: Right. It’s so true. I take this on very deeply. Just in myself in my life, I’ve always been a pusher, and like, go, go. It needs to get done. And I always used to stress out, and there was just times where I was forced to slow down. And then I started doing personal development and meditation and other things that I was like, you know what? Slowing down really allows me to get so much more clear about the direction that I’m going that I actually end up going faster and doing less work because I’m not spinning my wheels trying to figure it out.

[00:22:36] Luca Campacci: Yeah, right.

[00:22:39] Calan Breckon: Cool. I want to move into a little bit more about entrepreneurship, and if there’s any tips or things that you would pass along to new entrepreneurs, whether that be in the field you’re in or just entrepreneurship in general, if there’s like maybe one thing each or two things each, that you’re like, know this.

[00:23:00] Luca Campacci: Yes.

So I’ll start off, and it’s what I tell because I also teach interior design and university, and I tell my students this all the time. When you’re gearing up for working at a firm or even starting your own thing, if you can work as a bartender, a server, or in retail, that teaches you a lot of soft skills that school is never going to teach you. And it’s basically six main soft skills that I think are the most vital for an entrepreneur. And they are. So it’s communication, improv, community planning, and detail and empathy and sales. So those are the six. And I feel like if you’re a bartender, if you’ve worked in retail, if you were a server at some point, you’re always touching upon these six skills, and especially, like after COVID, where a lot of things are now remote and it’s in front of a screen. The ability just to put yourself in front of a person and have a conversation face to face, understanding body language, having an approachable type of personality or characteristics, that is very beneficial, especially when you are spearheading a company, because you’re going to always be in front of a potential client. You’re going to be pitching and trying to sell yourself. You’re trying to understand your clients needs and requirements, and you’re trying to articulate your ideas. So all these different soft skills, if you can really fine tune them, it’s only going to make you a better entrepreneur.

[00:24:32] Calan Breckon: Yeah, big time. When you said that, I was like, yes, honestly, I was in the service industry for years. I worked as a server and then I also worked as a flight descendant for many years for very high top end brands. We’ll talk about that later. I don’t name drop on here, but it was one of the world’s top airlines. And so to learn those skills and be able to work with difficult people or difficult situations or customers who are like the Karens of the world, and they’ll be able to hold your composure and kind of just be like, it’s not me they’re mad at necessarily. It’s the uniform that they’re mad at.

[00:25:09] Luca Campacci: Exactly.

[00:25:10] Calan Breckon: And to be able to take that into corporate world, there’s a lot of technical founders or devs and people who are in the technical side of things that they don’t know how to do those other people things. And if you’re going to be an entrepreneur and you’re going to put yourself out there to be successful, you need those skills. You’re going to need to go into those meetings and be able to be a person with those people. You’re going to need to be able to go to those functions and those meetups and talk to people and be friendly because that’s how business is done. Business is done with other people. At the end of the day, it’s always other people. And so to have those skills, if you are an entrepreneur, number one, start going to meetups and be so uncomfortable and so awkward and pushing yourself out of that barrier. Because if that’s one of your issues, you’re going to have to get over that if you want to be successful.

[00:26:03] Luca Campacci: And you’re going to have to get over it quickly. Like the other thing, too, I find that a lot of people are not good with is confrontation.

And I think that there’s a negative connotation with that word because confrontation doesn’t necessarily mean fighting or anything like that. It could just be standing your ground or being a strong person when you’re coming across with a proposal or somebody might come at you and say, well, I really like your work, but I don’t want to spend that much money on what you’re selling kind of thing. And you have two options. You can either reduce your cost, which you shouldn’t, or you can stand your ground and be like, you know what, maybe you’re not for me, or this is why the cost is so much and you justify your services.

But I think being able to be okay with confrontation, of course, in a respectable way, is part of being an entrepreneur.

[00:26:54] Calan Breckon: Yeah, those difficult conversations, I think Brene Brown, I love brown, calls it rumbling. It’s like you kind of preamble and you go, ok, let’s have a rumble where we know this is a safe space, but things are going to get said that’s going to ruffle feathers, but we need to hold space for.

Definitely, definitely agree. Good ones. Vin, what about you?

[00:27:14] Vinh Le: I would honestly say getting out of your saboteur, like overcoming that, because as an entrepreneur like myself, even prior to starting the business, it’s all about perfectionism. Just getting everything right because you’re afraid that people are going to judge you because you failed, people are going to judge you because you did this decision versus that and just going through that whole process of I’m going to do it and this is how I’m going to do it. And it’s okay to make mistakes.

That term. Test and measure, same idea. Just do it, test it, measure. If it doesn’t work, pivot and keep on doing that until you find something that works. But at the same time, your inner saboteur could also stop you from launching something, posting something, doing something, like starting your business plan, because it’s overwhelming. And I think overcoming that is the first thing. Or you know what? I can’t say the first thing because there’s times in our process of entrepreneurism, our saboteur comes through and it takes over because you are uncomfortable, but you just don’t know how to navigate, to find how to get out of it or stop it from making your decisions versus you taking control. And I think taking control, one way to do it is what you mentioned is to put yourself out there and go to different meetups, find other support system, find some other friends that are entrepreneurs or someone that you could respect their industry or their advice.

Finding other entrepreneurs, for example, will allow you to hear their story and make you feel like you could put yourself in their shoes and navigate their process, but in your own way. So again, having that community system allows you to really get you to block out that saboteur voice. And I think that’s one thing that really, I guess everybody experiences it, some people louder than others. And I think it’s just really diving into your heart and saying, this is why I’m doing it and this is for me and this is how I’m going to do it.

[00:29:38] Calan Breckon: I definitely agree. I fully believe that perfectionism is the killer of progress.

[00:29:44] Vinh Le: Yes.

[00:29:44] Calan Breckon: If you are trying to be perfect, it is going to kill your progress. And, oh, God. As a recovering perfectionist, it kills me to say that because we always want to put our best foot forward and other people’s perceptions and this, that and the other. And sometimes I just look at these people who are just a giant mess, who are so successful in doing things. I’m like, how the hell did that person get to that point in their life? And it’s because they’re not perfect, but they just push forward and they keep learning and growing. And that is the number one important thing, is to push forward, to keep learning and to keep growing and challenging yourself to do that because you’re never going to get it perfect, but you’ll get it good enough. Good enough is done, and then done will teach you how to make better.

[00:30:34] Luca Campacci: Exactly.

[00:30:35] Vinh Le: Ashley, you brought up a really good point, and I think Luca  and I could share this item, but it’s comparison as an entrepreneur. Oh, my goodness.

[00:30:45] Calan Breckon: Compare and despair.

[00:30:47] Luca Campacci: Exactly.

[00:30:48] Vinh Le: You tend to, obviously, with social media where it’s disposable, it’s right in your face, it’s abundant, where you see right, left, center of all types of people doing what you’re doing or in another field, but being so successful and you just can’t help to compare yourself and be like, we’re not on that level. Oh, my God, what do we do? But at the same time, you have to use that comparison. It’s like, you know what? They’re on their lane. We’re on our lane.

Let’s make our lane the best lane that we could possibly make. Right?

[00:31:22] Luca Campacci: Yeah.

[00:31:23] Vinh Le: So again, comparison is good, but don’t really compare yourself to them because you don’t know what their story, you don’t know how they got there or why they got there and all that stuff. But do know, like, you’re in your own lane and this is your story to create.

[00:31:40] Calan Breckon: Yeah. Don’t do the compare and despair game. You’re never going to win. The only comparison I allow people to make is me with myself. Where was I last year?

[00:31:51] Vinh Le: Exactly.

[00:31:51] Calan Breckon: Further along than what I like, comparing myself to who I used to be and being like, okay, well, look at how far I’ve come and how much opportunity there is to grow. That’s the only compare you should do.

[00:32:04] Luca Campacci: Exactly.

[00:32:05] Vinh Le: And that’s what’s so beautiful. Certain from, that’s so beautiful about entrepreneurism, because again, you see how you started off and how you are in one year, two years, five years, ten years, and you’re just like, holy.

I am a totally different person. And you just don’t look back.

[00:32:23] Luca Campacci: And then I just wanted to touch upon what we were just talking about before with the perfectionism thing is as an entrepreneur, settle for 80% because that only helps you, especially when you’re hiring. So at the end of the day, we’re a growing company now, which is great, but when we were initially hiring, we always wondered, how are we going to do this? Who’s going to be able to do the roles that we do and all that kind of stuff? And the ability to delegate is not easy, but also, no one is going to be able to do something the exact same way you would do it yourself. And you need to be okay with that, and you need to come to terms with that, that everybody’s different, everybody’s going to approach it a different way. Everybody learns differently as well. So that’s a really important aspect to embrace when you begin hiring with your company is just settle for 80%, not 100.

[00:33:15] Calan Breckon: Yeah. C’s get degrees that nobody ever asks for it. Nobody ever wants to see your transcripts. They’re like, oh, did you get it? Cool, you’re good to go.

[00:33:25] Luca Campacci: Yeah. Do you have that piece of paper that cost you thousands of dollars?

[00:33:29] Calan Breckon: Yeah, exactly. And it’s just like, okay, you got it. Cool, thanks.

Yes. I fully agree that you can also determine things based on KPIs. Like, what’s the goal? We’re reaching. What do you need to get to get there? And then did you reach that goal? Everybody’s going to take a different lane to get there. But as long as a collective, you get there. That’s the important part. And then if you don’t, analyzing where are the parts that broke down on it and then going, okay, is this a learning place that we could learn and grow from? How can we take this and apply it to the next set of KPIs so that we do succeed?

And then if they’re not working out, okay, they’re not working out. Sometimes you just got to fire, bitch.

That’s okay, too. This has been a super magical interview. I love you guys. I just think the world of you.

[00:34:27] Luca Campacci: Two, I think you’re doing honestly, this has been great. I really appreciate it. It’s been so much fun.

[00:34:33] Calan Breckon: Yeah, right. I want to know where can people find out about level studios and everything else that you’re doing?

[00:34:39] Luca Campacci: Yeah, so level studios. So we are a Toronto based residential interior design firm. So our office is at Queen and parliament. You can check out our portfolio. It’s level studio ca.

And yeah, we do projects within the GTA. We specialize in luxury residential. So we do condos, we work with builders, and we do full renovations, full guts consultations. And we also do design consultations as well. So let’s say you might have a smaller budget. Maybe it’s like $20,000 or $30,000, which is healthy to furnish a condo.

You can have us in for a one and a half hour design consultation. You could pick our brains. We could focus on one room, one floor. It could be every room in your home. And we give you actionable steps to take, where to shop, given your budget and style. Everything that we’ve learned over the course of our career so far, we do like very quick, on the spot thinking and suggestions of what you can do in your space with that. One and a half hours.

[00:35:43] Vinh Le: Yeah.

[00:35:44] Calan Breckon: Magical. Awesome. I’ll make sure to have the links in the show notes for anybody listening if they want to get in contact with you.

[00:35:49] Luca Campacci: Awesome.

[00:35:50] Calan Breckon: Thank you so much, Luca and Vin, you two are just so.

All right, have a great, have a great day.

[00:35:57] Luca Campacci: Thanks so much.

[00:35:58] Calan Breckon: I think you can actually take a lot of what Vinh and Luca said today and apply it to any business partnership. Communication is definitely key when you’re building anything, and especially if you’re building it with a romantic partner. You definitely want to make sure that you get things right. Thanks again for tuning today. Don’t forget to hit that subscribe button, and if you really enjoyed the show please give it a star rating. I really appreciate it. The Business Gay podcast is written, produced, and edited by me, Calan Breckon and if you’re looking to get some SEO advice, you can head on over to calanbreckon.com/audit or just click the link in the show notes. That’s it for today. Peace, love, rainbows.